Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

Probably because while other states were doing well containing Delta, Florida has jumped to be the 3rd highest cases/1M rate in the US and 9th highest deaths/1M rate in the US...

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

It's easy to point to a rapidly declining infection rate when your state had even more infections and deaths WITH the vaccine during the third [Delta] wave than you had in either of the previous waves...

Nobody points out that leadership has actively promoted vaccines since they came out. Everyone likes to point out that he promoted medicine to reduce symptoms of those infected, and now that medicine supply is being held hostage. He promoted it because he knows that a certain amount of his citizens just won't get the vaccine. And it's not a party-line thing here. Trust me.

He's not a mandate guy. He's a leadership guy. If you want to wear a mask, do it. He's not saying you can't. He just not saying that you have to.

99% of the people who died in the recent surge were unvaccinated. Whose fault is that?

Because it's been shown to be more effective than the vaccinations in several studies.

I wish the CDC would recognize this, or at least acknowledge it.

Ahhh. The phrasing made me a little unsure what you were getting at.

I suppose it’s valuable to acknowledge it, though it is still advisable to get the jab on top of that, at least as far as I’ve read. I wonder, and I’m just playing devil’s advocate since I can’t really back their process, if there’s a worry it becomes a rallying cry on the huckster side of things.

On the plus side, if you combine the folks who got the jab and that group, we might be closer to very good shape, and that would be grand.

Nobody points out that leadership has actively promoted vaccines since they came out. Everyone likes to point out that he promoted medicine to reduce symptoms of those infected, and now that medicine supply is being held hostage. He promoted it because he knows that a certain amount of his citizens just won't get the vaccine. And it's not a party-line thing here. Trust me.

He's not a mandate guy. He's a leadership guy. If you want to wear a mask, do it. He's not saying you can't. He just not saying that you have to.

99% of the people who died in the recent surge were unvaccinated. Whose fault is that?

I wasn't making this about politics or their governor. HB asked why we're not talking about Florida's declining rate. I said it's because this latest Delta surge has put Florida into the top 10 in the USA in deaths/1M. 

Back before the Delta surge, Florida was patting themselves on the back for being middle-of-the-pack numbers-wise. I think they were right around 25th or 26th in deaths/1M, so quite literally middle-of-the-pack.  I really couldn't criticize because being a large state, they were middle-of-the-pack numbers-wise. But while they were congratulating themselves and patting themselves on the back, their numbers went to shit. 

So I'm not going to pat them on the back for making their numbers slightly less shitty as the Delta surge recedes. 

Because it's been shown to be more effective than the vaccinations in several studies.

I wish the CDC would recognize this, or at least acknowledge it.

I haven't seen these studies--and I've read the studies you've linked to me, which did not support that. I believe one showed that natural infection showed robust immune response, including B and T cells. And another one you linked showed that the vaccinations also promoted the same immune response, but it was too early to determine if the response was as robust as natural infection. 

It's also been shown that if you have natural immunity AND THEN you get the jab, your immune response to the jab is stronger than either natural immunity or just the jab without previous infection. So there is strong evidence that if you have natural immunity, getting the jab makes it even better.

We also don't know how long natural immunity lasts. One might think that if someone had the virus more than 6 months ago, it might be even more important to get the jab just in case their own immunity has waned.

If you have any studies that support that immunity from natural infection is either more robust, or more long-lasting, than from the jab, let me know. I'll read them.

Ahhh. The phrasing made me a little unsure what you were getting at.

I suppose it’s valuable to acknowledge it, though it is still advisable to get the jab on top of that, at least as far as I’ve read. I wonder, and I’m just playing devil’s advocate since I can’t really back their process, if there’s a worry it becomes a rallying cry on the huckster side of things.

On the plus side, if you combine the folks who got the jab and that group, we might be closer to very good shape, and that would be grand.

Well, with the ability to see breakthrough infections with Delta, we can't really trust that the case numbers really reflect the actual impact of the virus any longer. But the deaths did rise and fall in the same shape as the infections, so I think we can say that we were not at herd immunity prior to the Delta wave. 

Is it possible we're at or near herd immunity now if you add up natural infection plus the vaccinated, as we see Delta receding? Maybe. I'd certainly hope so. 

Personally, I'm vaxxed, as is my wife, as our my two eligible children, as are all of my most vulnerable relatives and friends. So I'm living my life as if we're in very good shape. But I continue to recommend anyone who hasn't gotten the jab to do so, because counting on everyone else to protect you via herd immunity is a dangerous strategy. 

The current president told everyone that he would not get it because it was developed under the former president. Current VP and Speaker said same. Many of their followers won't get it, for whatever reasons.

I'd like to see where you got this from.  If I recall correctly, Biden got vaccinated at nearly the same time as Trump.

I looked it up, he received his first dose on Dec. 21st, and the second on Jan. 11th

https://abc7news.com/joe-biden-covid-vaccine-coronavirus-covid-19-gets/9561849/

I personally don't care that much. You asked why we're not talking about declining numbers, and I responded and said that it was declining from very high numbers, a much worse Delta surge than much of the rest of the country, which is why Florida jumped from middle-of-the-pack to top 10 in deaths/1M.

I did not bring up the governor, nor did I bring up Florida's COVID policies. By not bringing them up, I would assume that I was not offering unwarranted and vicious politicized attacks.

But... If one wanted to go there, one could argue that to the extent that government policy impacts the numbers, Florida's government policy led to bad numbers. YOU were the one asking why weren't talking about declining case rates--an admission that you were allowing Florida to be judged on the declining numbers. All I'm saying is you can't have it both ways. We can't congratulate you (and your statewide handling of the pandemic) for declining numbers without acknowledging that your statewide handling of the pandemic JUST MIGHT have led to the very high numbers in the Delta surge that you were declining from.

When I referred to “ center stage” I was referring to the media. Not here. 
your a smart man- that is clear.  That’s how I know you understand exactly what I am referring to.

As far as policies go- there is nothing different in Florida policies that can be tied to a single death.

As it relates to policy and messaging? Perhaps - perhaps not. But I'd like to respond to our friend Geolion, because he asked. And I will respond only with a link.

Fair?

It's your party.


My feedback is-- Mentioning specific leaders is inevitably divisive and causes a shitastic meltdown on this thread.  Historically speaking, that is.