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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #13902 on: May 27, 2021, 11:07:22 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on May 27, 2021, 11:01:47 AM

No, no it isn't.

I just looked it up on the intergoogles and if they are correct, then China only owns a small portion of the US national debt.  Around $1.1 trillion out of $26 trillion, so around 4%.

The most recent stimulus package was $1.9 trillion which by itself accounts for almost double the portion of the national debt owed to China.

So... yeah...

How much real estate do they own here? How much money do they have in Wall Street?

It's all a mess.
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FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #13903 on: May 27, 2021, 11:27:46 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on May 27, 2021, 11:01:47 AM

No, no it isn't.

I just looked it up on the intergoogles and if they are correct, then China only owns a small portion of the US national debt.  Around $1.1 trillion out of $26 trillion, so around 4%.

The most recent stimulus package was $1.9 trillion which by itself accounts for almost double the portion of the national debt owed to China.

So... yeah...

fine, now China owes the USA 2 trillion

if it were up to me
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #13904 on: May 27, 2021, 11:41:49 AM »
Well, any time you talk about what "China" owns, you have to ask yourself whether that is what "China" owns or whether that's what "Chinese people" own... 

Two completely different things. Some rich dude in Shanghai who bought up a few million dollars worth of rental properties in Irvine CA doesn't "owe" anyone squat. Some rich dude in Shenzhen who has $25M in wealth in Wall Street stocks doesn't "owe" anyone squat. Those dudes weren't doing virology research in Wuhan or weren't strongarming the WHO to keep things quiet.

I think the $1.1T that "China" owns of US debt is likely their sovereign wealth fund, so that would legitimately be owned by the Chinese gov't. 

However... Reneging on US treasury bonds, EVEN for China, may not be a great idea for anyone who wants the USD to remain the world's primary reserve currency... So it could end up hurting us FAR worse than the $1.1T "windfall" we'd get from stiffing China on those bonds.
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utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #13905 on: May 27, 2021, 11:56:17 AM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 27, 2021, 11:41:49 AM
Well, any time you talk about what "China" owns, you have to ask yourself whether that is what "China" owns or whether that's what "Chinese people" own...

Two completely different things. Some rich dude in Shanghai who bought up a few million dollars worth of rental properties in Irvine CA doesn't "owe" anyone squat. Some rich dude in Shenzhen who has $25M in wealth in Wall Street stocks doesn't "owe" anyone squat. Those dudes weren't doing virology research in Wuhan or weren't strongarming the WHO to keep things quiet.


Well, sort of, but not really.  The CCP has proven time and again it won't hesitate to nationalize "private" holdings.  Nobody in China really owns anything, if or when the CCP decides they want it.

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 27, 2021, 11:41:49 AM
I think the $1.1T that "China" owns of US debt is likely their sovereign wealth fund, so that would legitimately be owned by the Chinese gov't.

However... Reneging on US treasury bonds, EVEN for China, may not be a great idea for anyone who wants the USD to remain the world's primary reserve currency... So it could end up hurting us FAR worse than the $1.1T "windfall" we'd get from stiffing China on those bonds.


But I completely agree with this.  It's something that angry people talk about-- and I believe they have that right-- but in reality, it would do far more harm than good.  Ultimately, $1.1T just "isn't much" in the grand scheme of things.
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longhorn320

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #13906 on: May 27, 2021, 12:20:22 PM »
Instead of payback we should be looking for a way to keep this from happening in the future or maybe a better early warning system if it does
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utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #13907 on: May 27, 2021, 12:27:21 PM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on May 27, 2021, 12:20:22 PM
Instead of payback we should be looking for a way to keep this from happening in the future or maybe a better early warning system if it does
I think we should be looking at both.  Prevention is of course critical.

But I don't think "blaming China" and enacting sanctions against them should be off the table either.  Because part of an effective prevention plan, could very well be punishing them for this occurrence in the first place, to discourage them from enabling future outbreaks.

How to do that-- how to make it large enough and punitive enough to be effective-- is certainly a challenge.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #13908 on: May 27, 2021, 12:29:28 PM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on May 27, 2021, 12:20:22 PM
Instead of payback we should be looking for a way to keep this from happening in the future or maybe a better early warning system if it does
We had something like that and a certain someone cut funding for it.  
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FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #13909 on: May 27, 2021, 12:29:55 PM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on May 27, 2021, 12:20:22 PM
Instead of payback we should be looking for a way to keep this from happening in the future or maybe a better early warning system if it does
yup, why can't we have all three?
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longhorn320

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #13910 on: May 27, 2021, 12:42:45 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 27, 2021, 12:29:28 PM
We had something like that and a certain someone cut funding for it. 
what the hell are you talking about
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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #13911 on: May 27, 2021, 12:44:35 PM »
The good news about an entangled economy is we usually wouldn't go to war with them.  And vice versa.  Hopefully.
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utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #13912 on: May 27, 2021, 12:54:27 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on May 27, 2021, 12:44:35 PM
The good news about an entangled economy is we usually wouldn't go to war with them.  And vice versa.  Hopefully.
I don't believe the CCP has any interest in destroying us, or anyone else.  Physically.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #13913 on: May 27, 2021, 12:55:49 PM »
I certainly agree, they take a longer term view of things.

War would be contrary to what they want for the future.

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FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #13914 on: May 27, 2021, 01:02:37 PM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on May 27, 2021, 12:42:45 PM
what the hell are you talking about
damn you
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longhorn320

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #13915 on: May 27, 2021, 01:24:10 PM »
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They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.
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