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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12824 on: March 10, 2021, 02:15:33 PM »
Georgia has been partly open since April 23 last year and is in the middle by most metrics.  Rates are WAY down and continuing to drop now.  I THINK most of us "know the drill", wear a mask at Kroger, fine.

The state, like others, arguably is nearing herd immunity to the extent that the virus is not spreading nearly as fast.

847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12825 on: March 10, 2021, 02:28:29 PM »
I've been in Illinois since Saturday. It is very sad to see how many of my favorite places have shuttered.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12826 on: March 10, 2021, 02:36:30 PM »
Like... for example... the author of the article you posted...? :)

I don't know... If you read that article it seemed to state that some areas were better for certain states while some were worse.

And it tried to dig into some of the reasons why this isn't a simple comparison where one state can claim "victory".

I'm also talking about much more than the China Virus here. I'm talking about social, mental, economic and all the other impacts that this virus has affected. Drug addiction is up. Suicides are up. Murders are up. Kids are being left behind. All of this for lockdowns that don't work.
And you have evidence that all of these social, mental, economic effects have been more severe in California than Florida?

Some potentially have. Other potentially have not. Undoubtedly unemployment is worse here in California than Florida, but both were pretty severely negatively impacted.

Drug addiction is probably hard to track (because it often goes unreported), and the impact on kids due to school is also hard to track--although I do highlight that some areas of California have been conducting in-person schooling since very shortly after the start of the school year.

Have suicide/murder relative to the pre-COVID baselines increased more in California than Florida?

Kris60

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12827 on: March 10, 2021, 02:42:29 PM »
Pfizer?  How did you manage to get an appointment at your age?
I’m getting my second Moderna shot Friday.  My wife runs a clinic here and I figure most people assume she just pushed me through during one of their big vaccine events, but that isn’t what happened.  At least not exactly. The state had a database of patients and they were texting them and then following up with a recorded message with their appointment time.

My wife was on a conference call and was leery about how it might work and entered my name and number in the database to use as a guinea pig.  They contacted me (it actually was confusing and clunky) early on to schedule an appointment time but I never contacted them back.  This was very early in the process when just the most elderly and fragile patients were getting the shots.  I told her my experience using the system and never thought anything else about it.

Then, four weeks ago I was hanging out at home one evening and our local Walgreen’ s called me and asked if I wanted my Covid vaccine.  They were just going through the database contacting people who hadn’t received their shot yet.  I told them sure and went the next day to get my shot.

My buddy got his first shot last week because there was a big vaccine clinic and they had a bunch of cancellations and no shows. They started randomly calling people they knew to get them in arms or they would lose them.

Anyway, I’m dreading the second shot.  I know a lot of people who said the second one kicked their butt pretty good.

longhorn320

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12828 on: March 10, 2021, 02:55:03 PM »


Anyway, I’m dreading the second shot.  I know a lot of people who said the second one kicked their butt pretty good.
please let us know how that 2nd shot goes
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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12829 on: March 10, 2021, 02:57:21 PM »
I don't know... If you read that article it seemed to state that some areas were better for certain states while some were worse.

And it tried to dig into some of the reasons why this isn't a simple comparison where one state can claim "victory".
And you have evidence that all of these social, mental, economic effects have been more severe in California than Florida?

Some potentially have. Other potentially have not. Undoubtedly unemployment is worse here in California than Florida, but both were pretty severely negatively impacted.

Drug addiction is probably hard to track (because it often goes unreported), and the impact on kids due to school is also hard to track--although I do highlight that some areas of California have been conducting in-person schooling since very shortly after the start of the school year.

Have suicide/murder relative to the pre-COVID baselines increased more in California than Florida?
I have no direct evidence because the numbers are not out there yet, but it's hard to argue anything different.

Mental Health and Coping During COVID-19 | CDC

COVID: Mental Health 'Epidemic' in Communities of Color (webmd.com)

COVID-19 and your mental health - Mayo Clinic

Teen Mental Health Has Suffered During the COVID-19 Pandemic | Time

CDC study sheds new light on 'mental health crisis' linked to coronavirus pandemic - CNN




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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12830 on: March 10, 2021, 03:49:28 PM »
I have no direct evidence because the numbers are not out there yet, but it's hard to argue anything different.

Mental Health and Coping During COVID-19 | CDC

COVID: Mental Health 'Epidemic' in Communities of Color (webmd.com)

COVID-19 and your mental health - Mayo Clinic

Teen Mental Health Has Suffered During the COVID-19 Pandemic | Time

CDC study sheds new light on 'mental health crisis' linked to coronavirus pandemic - CNN

Oh, I don't doubt that the pandemic has caused a lot of mental health problems. As has the racial tension over the past year, a more contentious than usual election, and the post-election craziness. 

What I don't really know is whether there is a correlation of higher mental health issues in the "lockdown" states compared to "open" states. Maybe there is. 

For example, I just looked at the first three google results on "suicide rates after covid by state":

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(20)30435-1/fulltext

Study was Queensland, AUS. Monthly suicide rate for the 5 years prior was 14.85/100K. Monthly suicide rate from Feb 1 [the day Queensland declared emergency] until Aug 31 was 14.07, so no change was seen. This study obviously doesn't really dig into lockdown.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(20)30435-1/fulltext

Study was in Japan. Suicides in the first five months of their pandemic (Feb->June) were down 14% from previous years. However, suicides in the 5 months following (July->Oct) increased 16%. This study also doesn't really dig into the lockdown angle.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2775359

This was in Massachussetts, and purported to only study during the stay-at-home advisory (March->May 2020). They found the previous rate was 0.8/100K "person-months", whereas the rate during this period was 0.67%/100K "person-months", so it decreased. Obviously this could be consistent with both the Queensland and Japanese studies, but as the Japanese study showed a decline followed by an increase, it's entirely possible that longer-term stay-at-home advisory could cause larger spikes as quarantine fatigue set in...

--------------

I think it's important that sometimes we *think* an outcome that we expect to happen is simply the logical result, but the numbers don't always bear that out. 

Imagine a logical thought--the pandemic is scary for everyone. It's a new environment, and many people are scared to socially interact because they feel like they're trying to being safe. Others are unconcerned about the pandemic because they feel like they're in low-risk groups, and feel like they should be allowed to do what they want.

  • In a state with a lockdown, the first group will feel like they've been told to do this and there is little social pressure to defect and cause cognitive dissonance by doing something they feel isn't right. Whereas in a state without a lockdown, the first group will feel ostracized/alienated as overly cautious or fearful because their personal thoughts are more risk-averse. They could end up either feeling more lonely as they see their social group cavorting around while they choose to stay at home, or they could feel more anxious as they fall victim to social pressure and go out with their social group while dealing with the fear. 
  • In a state without a lockdown, the second group will feel the same as they've usually felt. In a state with a lockdown, the second group would be more likely to feel anger IMHO than ostracized alienated, and more likely to simply react by doing what they want anyway despite what they're told to do. I think we certainly saw plenty of this in California. 

The bad result for those who are fearful without a lockdown is additional loneliness or anxiety, whereas with a lockdown they feel validation and lack of social pressure to defect. Whereas those who are not fearful without a lockdown is status quo, and with a lockdown feel anger and potentially defiant, where are much more empowering emotions. 

Now, it may be true that I'm oversimplifying a bunch of really complex emotions; I am. It might not be accurate. But hopefully it shows how certain responses that you might expect could be counterintuitive from someone else, compared to what you carry into this with your own emotional perspective.  


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12831 on: March 10, 2021, 04:27:36 PM »

ELA

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12832 on: March 10, 2021, 04:30:51 PM »
Pfizer?  How did you manage to get an appointment at your age?
I qualified based on weight.  I didn't even think to check, and then my neighbor, who is in better shape than me, said he did it on a whim, and was accepted.  I've never been happier for these few extra pounds.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12833 on: March 10, 2021, 04:36:14 PM »
I qualified based on weight.  I didn't even think to check, and then my neighbor, who is in better shape than me, said he did it on a whim, and was accepted.  I've never been happier for these few extra pounds.
In California I thought I'd be in good shape re: priority due to my obesity--I'm just over the 30 BMI mark. Apparently they're only prioritizing severe obesity, a BMI over 40. 

FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12834 on: March 10, 2021, 04:37:17 PM »
yup, lady in my office that is a couple decades younger than me is getting a shot

she's not skinny, but I certainly don't think of her as obese 
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12835 on: March 10, 2021, 05:28:25 PM »
No state wins any award. Nobody will celebrate a single death.  Many can criticize but it really is not fair to tie the death rate to a governor. ( maybe a few exceptions but let’s just ignore that for this conversation)

But we can give plenty of our own thoughts and opinions.  These are mine- and whether you believe this or not- they are not political at least an intention.

What is the right answer when you’re trying to balance “flattening the curve”, protecting those who are vulnerable, The general health of the public, the economic viability of those people who live in your state- especially small business owners whose ability to feed their families and pay their bills is solely tied to the small business that they run, having kids in school which we all acknowledge is optimum but not putting teachers and administrators at risk, and the list goes on.  I am not sure there is a “right“ answer.

I am glad I was in Florida when this thing hit because I am very very pleased with the way Florida handled this. I feel like the balance between individual protections, the greater good including economic, we’re about as well served as they could be. I also think the fact that so many people are moving here now supports that at least to some degree.

The fact that this was so politicized is my greatest disappointment and nobody gets off the hook here. “Science” was tossed around like a security blanket but completely misused.  You simply cannot say with a straight face that people who want to gather in a church, distancing, while wearing masks, is not following science yet having liquor stores, marijuana dispensaries, and other things open, is.  It clearly is individual opinions and decisions.

The world was not prepared for this and it seems like we are finally starting to learn more and I just hope if and when the next one comes the world will be much more prepared for this and in the United States it won’t become a political hot potato.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12836 on: March 10, 2021, 05:31:20 PM »


Anyway, I’m dreading the second shot.  I know a lot of people who said the second one kicked their butt pretty good.
I didn't have any issues with the 2nd shot.  I had the pfizer one.
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utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12837 on: March 10, 2021, 05:32:23 PM »
My i s c & a aggie wife had no issues with the first or second.  She had Moderna.

 

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