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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #10360 on: November 06, 2020, 11:43:51 AM »
Yeah, individual risk versus collective "public health" risk.

My chances of dying in a car are remote, but we spend resources and money trying to reduce the numbers.  Getting a DL in Europe apparently is arduous.

My driving test way back was silly.  And the blood alcohol limit there is 0.04%.

My practical flight test was somewhat simplified I thought, I had prepared for something more challenging.

Autonomous cars would come faster if we had sensible Federal regulations, which is a hope I do not have.

GopherRock

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #10361 on: November 06, 2020, 01:13:50 PM »
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/live-updates-covid-19-cases-in-minnesota/89-8c08e7e3-87d9-4399-bc5e-e1a09f0ea2c8?fbclid=IwAR3CkyURMBGZ2pvd8rEnDLSIbaD4It30uzwqeghdMHFbUTtVJ77QXCjVvRI

Ugly, ugly numbers today. Minnesota crushes their one-day-old record of positives (5454 today, 3956 yesterday), hospitalizations, and fatalities. 12% of yesterday's tests came back hot. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #10362 on: November 06, 2020, 01:29:36 PM »


I can't imagine trying to live a near zero risk life.
Why does the discussion go to the opposite end?  No one is suggesting this as a goal.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #10363 on: November 06, 2020, 01:31:51 PM »


The message has to be, as it actually is in Sweden: "We're going to remain open but we're relying on ALL of you to be vigilant and contain the spread. You're adults, so act like it."
The American masses can be called a lot of things, but "adults" isn't one of them.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #10364 on: November 06, 2020, 01:37:55 PM »
The American masses can be called a lot of things, but "adults" isn't one of them.
You need a smaller paint brush. Get out and travel a little maybe?


Anyway, 82K tests in FL yesterday. 6.3% positive.

Illinois and Wisconsin are hot messes. Illinois Governor talking about a lockdown again, which, beyond what he already put in place, means a stay at home order. I don't think that's gonna fly.


Coronavirus in Illinois updates: 10,376 new known COVID-19 cases — another record daily high — and 49 additional deaths reported

U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Riffraft

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #10365 on: November 06, 2020, 01:42:27 PM »
The problem with the driving analogy stems from a flaw in thinking about this that goes all the way back to OAM's post in response to me re: quarantine fatigue:
While this will sound strange coming from a libertarian and hardcore individualist, if we ALL think about our own individual risk of getting COVID rather than thinking about R0, we'll each individually take actions which result in increasing R0.


For someone who claims to be a libertarian, you have espouse over and over again some very anti-libertarian positions. I am tempted to post "The Princess Bride" meme. :)


utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #10366 on: November 06, 2020, 01:52:55 PM »
For someone who claims to be a libertarian, you have espouse over and over again some very anti-libertarian positions. I am tempted to post "The Princess Bride" meme. :)



If you're suggesting that bwar comes off way more "LIB" than "ERTARIAN"... well, that would be political and completely off-limits on this thread.



:))

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #10367 on: November 06, 2020, 01:57:46 PM »
Why does the discussion go to the opposite end?  No one is suggesting this as a goal.
It's a hypothetical.  We each assess risk:reward daily.  There is no alternative I can imagine.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #10368 on: November 06, 2020, 02:15:26 PM »
Why does the discussion go to the opposite end?  No one is suggesting this as a goal.
Because you have to date not seemed to offer any idea for what we should be doing other than endless lockdowns. And when I suggested the American people were having quarantine fatigue, your response was basically "suck it up and quarantine, because this thing kills X% of people". 

The only thing that I can take from that is that you believe we shouldn't be doing in-person schooling, that we shouldn't have reopened commerce, that we certainly shouldn't be playing football, etc. You haven't said that specifically, but your consistent message is to criticize anything other than lockdowns, so it's hard to draw any other conclusion.

For someone who claims to be a libertarian, you have espouse over and over again some very anti-libertarian positions. I am tempted to post "The Princess Bride" meme. :)
I'll accept that criticism. I have a couple of policy points where I stray from the pure libertarian answer, and if this were a political blog, I would be happy to discuss in detail how and why I do so.

As it relates to COVID, however, I believe that the initial lockdowns were necessary. Effectively, knowing the American people, if we had taken a message like Sweden of "we're not shutting down but here's what you should personally do" I don't believe it would have been even remotely effective. The lockdowns were a mental reset of "hey, this thing is real and you'd better f$&%#^g take it seriously, citizens!"

Where we completely lost the narrative was when it was clear that lockdowns weren't going to eradicate the virus and we needed to reopen, we didn't cultivate a message of how to live in the new normal. We kept some of these lockdowns too long and with too little education on how to reopen safely. 

As such, everyone has quarantine fatigue and many have given up on trying to prevent spread because it's just been too long and they don't feel personal risk. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #10369 on: November 06, 2020, 02:50:16 PM »
You need a smaller paint brush. Get out and travel a little maybe?
Tell me how much I've traveled already.  I'm dying to know!
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #10370 on: November 06, 2020, 02:59:29 PM »
Because you have to date not seemed to offer any idea for what we should be doing other than endless lockdowns. And when I suggested the American people were having quarantine fatigue, your response was basically "suck it up and quarantine, because this thing kills X% of people".

The only thing that I can take from that is that you believe we shouldn't be doing in-person schooling, that we shouldn't have reopened commerce, that we certainly shouldn't be playing football, etc. You haven't said that specifically, but your consistent message is to criticize anything other than lockdowns, so it's hard to draw any other conclusion.
I'm also told I shouldn't get political, which to properly address what we should (and should in the past) do requires discussion that includes political crap.  This is taboo in the echo chamber here.

Anyway, what's the best way to get out of a quagmire?  Not to get in one, of course.  But we're here, you might say, it does no good to look at the past.  Great.  

I don't believe I've suggested the answer is endless lockdowns.  I know my situation and what's prudent for me.  Answers?  Anytime I approach an answer, everyone bitches about how ______ I am and fails to address the actual idea.  They just disparage me (not that I care).  

As I attempt to address points on what I would do, it just winds up sounding like I'm shitting on Trump over and over, even while not even dwelling on him, specifically.  You and 847 call for my input, but it's just to dismiss it.  I'll post something substantive when I get home.

Here's one idea - instead of trickle-down economics, how about trickle up pandemic?  The most wealthy end up holding the bill on the societal pause.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #10371 on: November 06, 2020, 03:07:26 PM »
There are no good answers short of an effective vaccine.

utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #10372 on: November 06, 2020, 03:14:10 PM »
So there are no good answers.  

This is the way.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #10373 on: November 06, 2020, 03:20:06 PM »
There are no good answers short of an effective vaccine.
It's a pandemic. By nature we're choosing the "least bad" options from a shitty menu. 

 

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