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Could it be I mean this is just a wild ass off the wall guess but could it be OAM does not love America

If I didn't love America, then I wouldn't be honest about it and want to improve it.  If I didn't love America, I would just talk trash about it and move.  

Your attacks aren't prudent.

Interestingly, the wife does not want to live in France.  Her words were "No way".  Her reasons are varied, but she obviously prefers it here.  I think folks here don't perhaps appreciate how complex it is in France to buy and sell a house, or even a car, compared with here, or how much basic items cost versus here, or how hard it can be to get a driver's license or do any mundane thing that involves government.

We like to visit, in part because we have many friends and two daughters who live there.  Our friends who lived here to a one say they would have stayed in the US except for family in France.  It's interesting chatting with them about the pros and cons of living in the two countries, and of course it's not all cons.  Our son in law is American and prefers France while our daughter who is French prefers America.  She says she would move here in a heartbeat, he won't.  A lot of that is their version of social security into which he has paid quite a bit and of course has not drawn anything out.

Anyway, I believe one can make do in any "civilized" country, but there would be ups and downs and unexpected pluses and minuses, but I can say our general standard of living here is significantly higher than peers in France who had the same kind of job, same as with England.

If I didn't love America, then I wouldn't be honest about it and want to improve it.  If I didn't love America, I would just talk trash about it and move. 

Your attacks aren't prudent.

You want to improve it how?

I gave what I believe was some sound ideas on the Stream thread, which is where this conversation belongs, by the way. 

I too am a bit uncomfortable with the phrase "love America".  I don't quite understand what is meant by it, and I think the meaning varies.

I was born here, I'm proud of our accomplishments, I want the place to be better, I celebrate when good things happen, and despair when bad things happen.

I like where we live, we enjoy it, I wouldn't say I love it, except in the most casual way.  I like the state, it's fine, it has issues.  I like visiting out west a lot.  I'd like to travel a lot more than I have, and we have plans to do that, I'm fascinated with other cultures and ways of doing things.

I don't love America.

I love many things about America, but I do not subscribe to blind patriotism. Maybe it's because I grew up in Europe, and I have experience with other countries.

I find the pledge of allegiance creepy, too.  Such a weird experience seeing that for the first time. 

Blind patriotism is a great way to guarantee nothing improves.  It attempts to keep everything static, and thus, no progress happens.  Blind patriotism hurts the country.

The Pledge of Allegiance is fine, except for the "under god' part, which was inserted in the 50s in an odd reaction to communism.  Utterly vapid.  

Having students do it every day is indoctrination, though.  It works, just look at our friend, longhorn.  I'd be for having students say it maybe the first day of the school year only.  That would make some sense to me.  But look at it - if you're a kid and you come to school every day, from kindergarten to 12th grade, you've said the pledge 2,340 times.  Probably half of those times, before you had the knowledge and wherewithal to even question the behavior and actions of your own country and to consider the possibility it isn't great.

Blind patriotism is a great way to guarantee nothing improves.  It attempts to keep everything static, and thus, no progress happens.  Blind patriotism hurts the country.

The Pledge of Allegiance is fine, except for the "under god' part, which was inserted in the 50s in an odd reaction to communism.  Utterly vapid. 

Having students do it every day is indoctrination, though.  It works, just look at our friend, longhorn.  I'd be for having students say it maybe the first day of the school year only.  That would make some sense to me.  But look at it - if you're a kid and you come to school every day, from kindergarten to 12th grade, you've said the pledge 2,340 times.  Probably half of those times, before you had the knowledge and wherewithal to even question the behavior and actions of your own country and to consider the possibility it isn't great.

what about standing and singing the national anthem does that bother you OAM

If you think that opening the economy is solely about getting Trump re-elected then you are letting your hatred for him override good common sense.

There are many valid reasons to open the economy. Millions of Americans are asking for it to happen and helping Trump’s re-election is pretty far down on their list of reasons why.

Asking questions like “how many dead children are acceptable” is gaslighting the discussion. We don’t need that. Someone could ask “How many livelihoods do we destroy to save the lives of 80 somethings who have one foot in the grave anyway?” That question is just as overly dramatic and overly simplified as the other one.

Everybody knows there is a risk associated with opening up schools.  The consequences could be dire for some. No one is denying that.  People can make their own individual choices regarding that. Parents can make other arrangements for their children. Teachers can take sick leave, retire, quit, find other employment, etc.

The situation sucks. There isn’t a right answer.