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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5558 on: June 20, 2020, 03:41:03 PM »
The Fed is near us and has a pretty interesting museum inside.  They have exhibits of what was used as money in other cultures.

Incidentally, it's not as if our System was somehow magically broken a few decades ago.  It has always been corrupt and pernicious, even back in the day.  The amount of money involved today is far greater and the size and scope of government is far greater.

A person living in say 1880 could live his entire life with no more interaction with Federal government than the Post Office and voting.  It simply was not a relevant factor for them.

My Dad was born in 1917 in their house and there was no official record of his existence until he joined the army in 1942.  He changed his name, by just changing it.  He didn't like his initials.  I imagine he got counted in a census, but just as a child living there.

He was a twin, and the first photo of him shows him wearing leg braces, he didn't know why, he may have had mild polio.


Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5559 on: June 20, 2020, 03:48:49 PM »
Georgia just spiked on new cases, 1800.  The numbers had been running round 700 and level until ten days ago when they started up to near 900.  This is a real notable spike.  The state started to reopen April 23, but actual reopening took 2-3 weeks to happen.

If this continues well above a thousand, we're in trouble here I'd opine.  And yes, hospitalizations are drifting up but not nearly that fast.

CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5560 on: June 20, 2020, 03:48:58 PM »
As hard as I try to understand other opinions I just can’t understand this one.

Every day for weeks now- we have watched thousands of people gathering in extremely close proximity, arm in arm, holding hands, yelling, screaming. You don’t think those people were a big FU?

as far as POTUS- this has always been his thing. He has never, nor will ever get good press coverage.  His winning formula has been- go right to the people.  What- do you think he should just hide in his basement and take pre-scripted softball questions from a the one media outlet that likes him? He doesn’t have the benefit of 5 of the 6 large media outlet working to get him elected like his opponent does- in fact obviously the opposite.

Hell- I can’t stand him but that is obvious - his only avenue to win is these rally’s. 
HB, it seems to me that his winning formula has been to get a large minority of the people so angry at the rest of the people that they will show up in greater numbers in the critical states on election day.  It worked when his opponent was perhaps the most disliked woman in America.  But he's not going to have the detested-opponent factor working for him this fall, as the opposition is much more united and fired up and the opposition candidate is much more likable.  So he's got to get his base even angrier than they were in 2016.  That's what he's doing in Tulsa today.  That's why the National Guard troops are here.  I wonder if the presence of the National Guard is going to be a staple of his rallies for the rest of the campaign.  Who pays the bills for that?
I don't think that it being his only way to win justifies doing anything and everything that works.  It escalates the anger on both sides.  There are some tactics that candidates on both sides should foreswear.
My esposita just saw in "breaking news" that six of the POTUS' staffers setting up the rally have tested positive for exposure to COVID-19.
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CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5561 on: June 20, 2020, 03:53:59 PM »
Only his opponent Would whine incessantly that he won’t leave office after she beats him, and then refused to except your defeat for four years. You can’t make this shit up
Just to put all the facts on the table, our current POTUS did answer evasively when asked if he would accept the results if he lost.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5562 on: June 20, 2020, 04:03:14 PM »
Just to put all the facts on the table, our current POTUS did answer evasively when asked if he would accept the results if he lost.
There's a reason he specified that his side has all the guns.
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CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5563 on: June 20, 2020, 04:04:56 PM »
My definition of "wealthy" is a person who doesn't need any income.  They can do whatever they want realistically for the rest of their life with zero percent income.  And, if they did that they would pay no income taxes.

Many/most wealthy folks have their money mostly tied up in assets, say they started some company or whatever.  If they don't sell any part of that company, they have no income (unless it pays a dividend, and that is taxed favorably).  A wealthy person doesn't need to "hide" his money, he just needs to avoid having a bunch of income, and even if he does, he keeps most of it anyway, and still has his wealthy.
I don't disagree with that, but I'd add this to it.  Wealth, to a great degree, is between your ears.  (That's a semi-quote from Henry Ford, I think.)  It's what you know and what you know how to do.
If Bill Gates were removed from any connection with Microsoft and had his entire fortune confiscated, a year from now, he'd be well on his way to being wealthy again.
OTOH, lottery winners typically are right back where they were within 2 or 3 years of hitting it big.  They didn't know anything worthwhile before they won a lot of money, and once they spend or lose it, they still don't know anything.  Pro athletes often demonstrate this phenomenon too, albeit oftentimes they can make a living signing autographs.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5564 on: June 20, 2020, 04:05:12 PM »

If you want to do away with money, what would you recommend we use to replace it?
How do you get from what I said to "do away with money"??????????
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5565 on: June 20, 2020, 04:05:41 PM »
75-80k? My happiness would plateau well beyond 75-80k.
I'm sure we all assume that.  But you know, they actually studied this.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5566 on: June 20, 2020, 04:06:41 PM »
Studies say money makes your life better, only up to $75-80,000/year.  Beyond that, it plateaus, and you have Biggie's "Mo Money, Mo Problems." 

So these billionaires avoiding taxes are just squirrels hiding nuts, only to lose 80% of them.
Link to these studies?
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CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5567 on: June 20, 2020, 04:16:33 PM »
The Fed is near us and has a pretty interesting museum inside.  They have exhibits of what was used as money in other cultures.

Incidentally, it's not as if our System was somehow magically broken a few decades ago.  It has always been corrupt and pernicious, even back in the day.  The amount of money involved today is far greater and the size and scope of government is far greater.

A person living in say 1880 could live his entire life with no more interaction with Federal government than the Post Office and voting.  It simply was not a relevant factor for them.

My Dad was born in 1917 in their house and there was no official record of his existence until he joined the army in 1942.  He changed his name, by just changing it.  He didn't like his initials.  I imagine he got counted in a census, but just as a child living there.

He was a twin, and the first photo of him shows him wearing leg braces, he didn't know why, he may have had mild polio.
That's some story.
The "Longshoreman Philosopher" Eric Hoffer was supposedly born in NYC in 1898, but did not show up in any official records until the 1940 census.  There is much doubt about his place of birth, nationality, family history, and work history.
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CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5568 on: June 20, 2020, 04:19:37 PM »
Reasonable inference of what you meant based on what you posted.

I momentarily forgot that you would go into the Motte-and-Bailey defense.
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CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5569 on: June 20, 2020, 04:30:20 PM »
From The Bulwark

Pandemic Reminder

I know it's hard to keep track of, with everything going on, but there is still a pandemic.

Every six days right now, COVID-19 is killing about as many Americans as were killed on 9/11.

And this week our official death toll surpassed the number of U.S. dead in World War 1.

It's very hard to get our arms around what the real state of play is on the virus. Looking at numbers of confirmed new infections is a function of testing, as well as infection rates. Looking at number of hospitalizations is a function of behavior and availability.

My view is that the death totals are the best metric to watch in terms of having a real view of the virus. The drawback is that deaths don't give you a view of where we are right now. They're the after image of where we were two to four weeks ago.

Anyway, the death numbers have continued to trend in the right direction, though the curve has been shallower than we'd hoped.


This is, relatively speaking, good news. Deaths going down is better than deaths going up.

But at this point we're on track to have a preliminary death total—and remember, this number will almost certainly go up by a large percentage when in-depth accounting is done in the coming months—that's going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 140,000 by the end of the summer.

One of the things we've done is constantly reset our sense of what is "normal" or "acceptable" over the last six months. Back when the total number of dead was 100, there were people yammering on about how it was obvious that Trump had handled COVID-19 better than Obama had handled H1-N1, because just look, only 100 people were dead!

If you had carried a report back to these people from 20 weeks in the future proving that 120,000 Americans would be dead and asked them what they thought about it, I suspect most of those people would have had their heads explode.

But we are where we are and so people have gotten used to the idea, like the frogs in the boiling water.

It turns out that the models were more or less in the ballpark even though the epidemiologists were working with wildly incomplete information and changing habits of behavior. The Imperial College model on deaths minus mitigation efforts now seems pretty reasonable based on the number of dead even with intense mitigation.

And the University of Washington's IMHE model that everyone mocked? Its first projection in late March was 161,000 dead.

That's pretty close to the pin.

Meanwhile, the people insisting that the coronavirus was no big deal, that it was nothing worse than the flu, that the death total wouldn't even hit five digits—they were wrong.

Wildly, completely, fully-verifiably wrong. . . .
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ELA

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5570 on: June 20, 2020, 05:16:47 PM »
How do you get from what I said to "do away with money"??????????
From The Bulwark

Pandemic Reminder

I know it's hard to keep track of, with everything going on, but there is still a pandemic.

Every six days right now, COVID-19 is killing about as many Americans as were killed on 9/11.

And this week our official death toll surpassed the number of U.S. dead in World War 1.

It's very hard to get our arms around what the real state of play is on the virus. Looking at numbers of confirmed new infections is a function of testing, as well as infection rates. Looking at number of hospitalizations is a function of behavior and availability.

My view is that the death totals are the best metric to watch in terms of having a real view of the virus. The drawback is that deaths don't give you a view of where we are right now. They're the after image of where we were two to four weeks ago.

Anyway, the death numbers have continued to trend in the right direction, though the curve has been shallower than we'd hoped.


This is, relatively speaking, good news. Deaths going down is better than deaths going up.

But at this point we're on track to have a preliminary death total—and remember, this number will almost certainly go up by a large percentage when in-depth accounting is done in the coming months—that's going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 140,000 by the end of the summer.

One of the things we've done is constantly reset our sense of what is "normal" or "acceptable" over the last six months. Back when the total number of dead was 100, there were people yammering on about how it was obvious that Trump had handled COVID-19 better than Obama had handled H1-N1, because just look, only 100 people were dead!

If you had carried a report back to these people from 20 weeks in the future proving that 120,000 Americans would be dead and asked them what they thought about it, I suspect most of those people would have had their heads explode.

But we are where we are and so people have gotten used to the idea, like the frogs in the boiling water.

It turns out that the models were more or less in the ballpark even though the epidemiologists were working with wildly incomplete information and changing habits of behavior. The Imperial College model on deaths minus mitigation efforts now seems pretty reasonable based on the number of dead even with intense mitigation.

And the University of Washington's IMHE model that everyone mocked? Its first projection in late March was 161,000 dead.

That's pretty close to the pin.

Meanwhile, the people insisting that the coronavirus was no big deal, that it was nothing worse than the flu, that the death total wouldn't even hit five digits—they were wrong.

Wildly, completely, fully-verifiably wrong. . . .

Younger people are getting it, as a result of opening up.  It's both good and bad news.  Per usual

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5571 on: June 20, 2020, 05:21:04 PM »
Link to these studies?
They're well known. That said, they might be outdated. I seem to remember hearing about them maybe a decade ago or more. So maybe the number is 100K now. And I'm sure the number is higher depending where you live. 

And they don't say that your life doesn't get more comfortable with additional income, or specifically what OAM intimated about "mo money, mo problems".

But they said that as far as "happiness" is concerned, there are diminishing returns once you cross into upper middle class and are comfortable. More money helps with baby things, but happiness plateaus and needs to be satisfied by other means than money if you want to be happier. 

 

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