Author
Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
(Read 770885 times)

Kris60 · « **Reply #2268 on:** April 18, 2020, 10:53:27 PM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2020, 10:36:06 PM

I think the travel ban was cautious, which made it prudent.
Please stop with the "yeah, but" crap. It doesn't matter if a Dem was more on top of things than Trump. They weren't receiving the same info about the virus in the early weeks about it as he was. I'm not making any leap here, I'm merely saying no Dems had the same info as Trump did early on. AND NONE OF THEM ARE THE PRESIDENT.
.
If Trump (or anybody) slashes my tires so I can't drive, I don't care if someone else also broke my tail light. Genuine, intelligent discussion and debate is almost constantly derailed by this "yeah, but" garbage.

And what was the info he was receiving? From what I can tell it was all over the place. And it seems a big reason for that is China.

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #2269 on:** April 18, 2020, 10:55:17 PM »

I'll explain, if that helps. I answered your question.
The topic is Trump's response to the virus. You asked about it and I answered.
.
Then the "yeah, but" stuff is when you stray from the topic ^^^^ and start asking about Dems. Wait, I thought we were talking about Trump. Why are you bringing up the Dems? The Dems without the same intel docs Trump had. The Dems who aren't the president and making these decisions. What in the hell do they matter in this discussion?
.
It's not just you, i'm not singling you out. Most people do this. it's the thing where you get pulled over for speeding, and you tell the cop, "yeah, but the blue Porsche was speeding faster than I was!" Doesn't matter. You're the one pulled over. The blue Porsche (the Dems) are irrelevant.

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #2270 on:** April 18, 2020, 10:56:42 PM »

Quote from: Kris60 on April 18, 2020, 10:53:27 PM

And what was the info he was receiving? From what I can tell it was all over the place. And it seems a big reason for that is China.

You'd have to ask him. Do you not think the president is given intelligence docs that the rest of the politicians don't get? You can research the timeline if you want. Be careful though, there's a lot of muck out there.

Mdot21 · « **Reply #2271 on:** April 18, 2020, 10:58:41 PM »

Washington Post got their hands on US diplomatic cables from US officials in Beijing from 2018, where they openly warned and worried about the lab in Wuhan and it's potential for catastrophe. Yeah, that YouTuber who lived in China for 10 years was all over this shit. That dude might've swooped the entire world media. Wow.

Amid questions about the origin of the novel coronavirus outbreak, newly reported diplomatic cables showed that US officials had sounded the alarm about possible safety breaches at a lab studying coronaviruses in animals in Wuhan, China.

In the cables, obtained by the Washington Post national-security columnist Josh Rogin, US officials raised concerns about safety at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in 2018, two years before the novel coronavirus outbreak.

The lab, which holds a level-four biosafety research certification, the highest possible rating, was conducting research on coronaviruses in bats.

After multiple visits to the lab from a US diplomat in Wuhan and a science diplomat at the US Embassy in Beijing in early 2018, the officials became concerned about the safety of the research and sent two "sensitive but unclassified" cables back to Washington, DC, asking for assistance to help the lab tighten its safety protocols.

According to The Post, a cable dated January 19, 2018, said that "during interactions with scientists at the WIV laboratory, they noted the new lab has a serious shortage of appropriately trained technicians and investigators needed to safely operate this high-containment laboratory."

The Post said that diplomats and scientists were particularly worried about the safety of the lab's research on the transmission of bat coronaviruses and warned that sloppy safety protocols for handling contagious viruses in the lab "represented a risk of a new SARS-like pandemic."

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-officials-raised-alarms-about-safety-issues-in-wuhan-lab-report-2020-4

Ask yourself this, if this really just came out of a wildlife wet market, why would the CCP try and cover this thing up like they did? Why destroy evidence? Why murder whistleblowers and doctors? Why try to silence scientists and doctors? Why scrub the entire internet? Why with hold information? Why? Because it probably leaked out of that lab and they don't want the entire world to know about it. The CCP is more about saving face and maintaining and growing it's power than they are about anything else. If they let the world know this thing was a lab accident, they'd never be able to live it down.

MaximumSam · « **Reply #2272 on:** April 18, 2020, 10:59:07 PM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 18, 2020, 10:44:13 PM

Yes. Me and at least 60 million people

but we know- the way you think is correct and those of us who feel different are just dumb and uneducated. We have been told that by you and XiNN and MSNBC since you called anyone who has a different opinion than you -deplorable.

Bring called deplorable that's probably the worst thing to ever happen to a group of people

Kris60 · « **Reply #2273 on:** April 18, 2020, 11:01:07 PM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2020, 10:56:42 PM

You'd have to ask him. Do you not think the president is given intelligence docs that the rest of the politicians don't get? You can research the timeline if you want. Be careful though, there's a lot of muck out there.

That’s why I find it hard to criticize him too much . None of us really really know what information he was receiving or if it was even accurate.

Mdot21 · « **Reply #2274 on:** April 18, 2020, 11:06:59 PM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2020, 10:56:42 PM

You'd have to ask him. Do you not think the president is given intelligence docs that the rest of the politicians don't get? You can research the timeline if you want. Be careful though, there's a lot of muck out there.

The problem in this entire thing lies with China. They were not honest about this thing at all. My guess is that Trump handled them with kid gloves when this was all initially going on in order not to mess up negotiations on a very important trade deal with China. Turns out, he should've been putting the screws on them and bashing them publicly demanding transparency instead of singing their praises.

You'd expect a foreign government to be honest about a pandemic. Turns out you shouldn't when that country is China. China has lost any and all of what little credibility they had. The entire world is pissed off at them. UK, Australia, Brazil, Italy, France, South Korea, Japan, US all hating on China hard right now. China is in for a world of hurt once this is all over.

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #2275 on:** April 18, 2020, 11:18:49 PM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2020, 10:55:17 PM

I'll explain, if that helps. I answered your question.
The topic is Trump's response to the virus. You asked about it and I answered.
.
Then the "yeah, but" stuff is when you stray from the topic ^^^^ and start asking about Dems. Wait, I thought we were talking about Trump. Why are you bringing up the Dems? The Dems without the same intel docs Trump had. The Dems who aren't the president and making these decisions. What in the hell do they matter in this discussion?
.
It's not just you, i'm not singling you out. Most people do this. it's the thing where you get pulled over for speeding, and you tell the cop, "yeah, but the blue Porsche was speeding faster than I was!" Doesn't matter. You're the one pulled over. The blue Porsche (the Dems) are irrelevant.

I was just exploring your previous comments theorizing that he deserves criticism unilaterally
so- he is being criticized- completely falsely IMHO- for acting too slow.

in order to say that- what is that relative to? When should that action have taken place? Those who criticized that action in the short term—do they still think it was wrong now that more data is available? And lastly- it is absolutely fair and appropriate to ask those who quite viscously criticized that action- what is the suggested alternative.

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #2276 on:** April 18, 2020, 11:59:27 PM »

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 18, 2020, 11:06:59 PM

You'd expect a foreign government to be honest about a pandemic. Turns out you shouldn't when that country is China.

We've had this convo before, but I don't trust our current leadership to be honest about a pandemic. We said our media would bail us out....that same evil, liberal media that can't be trusted, I guess.

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #2277 on:** April 19, 2020, 12:05:29 AM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 18, 2020, 11:18:49 PM

I was just exploring your previous comments theorizing that he deserves criticism unilaterally
so- he is being criticized- completely falsely IMHO- for acting too slow.

in order to say that- what is that relative to? When should that action have taken place? Those who criticized that action in the short term—do they still think it was wrong now that more data is available? And lastly- it is absolutely fair and appropriate to ask those who quite viscously criticized that action- what is the suggested alternative.

I think there's too many unknowns to feel either way (unfairly attacked for not acting earlier OR wise to cut off travel from China). I honestly don't care about that.
My criticisms of him are larger than one occurrence. His every real shortcoming is predictable to me. His every success is accidental.

We don't know it for sure, but let's say his closing travel from China when he did as a good thing. Let's agree on that. Let's agree that one thing was a job well done. Does the reason behind it matter? With Trump, I think it's fair to question it. I previously described it as cautious and thus prudent. Are those 2 adjectives you'd apply to Trump? By calling his successes accidental, I might guess that his closing travel from China was merely an opportunity as a jab at them. Just a dumb-luck chance to shit on China and wasn't a cautious, prudent decision at all. Now, it wouldn't be fair to claim that, but it's fair for me to consider it and even lean that way.

But in the end, you could say the reason behind the move didn't matter, as long as it netted a plus for us. Great. But doing something good for (potentially) bad reasons isn't going to lead to doing more good things going forward. Ya know?

Mdot21 · « **Reply #2278 on:** April 19, 2020, 12:12:10 AM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2020, 11:59:27 PM

We've had this convo before, but I don't trust our current leadership to be honest about a pandemic. We said our media would bail us out....that same evil, liberal media that can't be trusted, I guess.

What in the hell are you talking about?

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #2279 on:** April 19, 2020, 12:16:00 AM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 19, 2020, 12:05:29 AM

I think there's too many unknowns to feel either way (unfairly attacked for not acting earlier OR wise to cut off travel from China). I honestly don't care about that.
My criticisms of him are larger than one occurrence. His every real shortcoming is predictable to me. His every success is accidental.

We don't know it for sure, but let's say his closing travel from China when he did as a good thing. Let's agree on that. Let's agree that one thing was a job well done. Does the reason behind it matter? With Trump, I think it's fair to question it. I previously described it as cautious and thus prudent. Are those 2 adjectives you'd apply to Trump? By calling his successes accidental, I might guess that his closing travel from China was merely an opportunity as a jab at them. Just a dumb-luck chance to shit on China and wasn't a cautious, prudent decision at all. Now, it wouldn't be fair to claim that, but it's fair for me to consider it and even lean that way.

But in the end, you could say the reason behind the move didn't matter, as long as it netted a plus for us. Great. But doing something good for (potentially) bad reasons isn't going to lead to doing more good things going forward. Ya know?

Agreed. But to me- it easily disproved your theory that he deserves ALL of his criticism.
those in public office or running for public office- who labeled that action, clearly had no right to. some have since admitted as much not most are still riding the train

what strikes me-and this is more intuitive than data based, is this:
his supporters are pretty cemented, as are his haters. Not much will change. But that (relatively small I am guessing) group in the middle, really independent as far as political affiliation, see the constant critique of him, much of it like stated above as not accurate and tend to gravitate more in his favor.

said another way- the lefts playbook of obstructing and criticizing has hurt them and will continue to- if their goal is to beat him at the polls.

Kris60 · « **Reply #2280 on:** April 19, 2020, 12:32:09 AM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 19, 2020, 12:05:29 AM

I think there's too many unknowns to feel either way (unfairly attacked for not acting earlier OR wise to cut off travel from China). I honestly don't care about that.
My criticisms of him are larger than one occurrence. His every real shortcoming is predictable to me. His every success is accidental.

We don't know it for sure, but let's say his closing travel from China when he did as a good thing. Let's agree on that. Let's agree that one thing was a job well done. Does the reason behind it matter? With Trump, I think it's fair to question it. I previously described it as cautious and thus prudent. Are those 2 adjectives you'd apply to Trump? By calling his successes accidental, I might guess that his closing travel from China was merely an opportunity as a jab at them. Just a dumb-luck chance to shit on China and wasn't a cautious, prudent decision at all. Now, it wouldn't be fair to claim that, but it's fair for me to consider it and even lean that way.

But in the end, you could say the reason behind the move didn't matter, as long as it netted a plus for us. Great. But doing something good for (potentially) bad reasons isn't going to lead to doing more good things going forward. Ya know?

I gotta be honest, when you say things like his successes are accidental it’s a bad look. That is just unreasonable. That just makes it sound like regardless of anything he does your heels are dug in to criticize him.

It’s that kind of attitude that makes his supporters dig their heels in even more. That’s what causes his supporters to make him a victim. I mean you all but said anything he does that works out is dumb luck and not worthy of praise. So absent of reasonable praise his supporters will shower him with unreasonable praise.

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #2281 on:** April 19, 2020, 12:38:38 AM »

That's fair.
I guess I just haven't seen him do something I find good without there being an obvious, potential ulterior motive.

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.

Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

Kris60

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

OrangeAfroMan

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

OrangeAfroMan

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

Mdot21

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

MaximumSam

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

Kris60

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

Mdot21

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

Honestbuckeye

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

OrangeAfroMan

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

OrangeAfroMan

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

Mdot21

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

Honestbuckeye

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

Kris60

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

OrangeAfroMan

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas