Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

1. I believe that COVID deaths are being greatly overstated. You don't, that's cool. Agree to disagree.

2. If NYC was so desperate for hospital beds, as the public officials kept saying, they would have cut through the red tape and transported these patients to the ship. The fact is, they did not do that. And then Gov Cuomo suggested yesterday in his daily press conference, that suddenly not many people are dying from heart attacks and other medical emergencies as they have before the outbreak. Coincidence?

3. All I am saying here is that it would appear that people dying of things like strokes or heart attacks, are now being reclassified as COVID deaths. So are we really experiencing an extremely large number of deaths from this or is it people playing with the numbers?

4. I really don't know who the doctor was as I had just gotten out of the shower and could hear the news playing on the TV from the bathroom. I wish I could tell you more than that. However, it should at least raise the question about how hospitals are being reimbursed for COVID patients that I believe is being ignored.

5. I have skepticism about anything that the news media spouts about 24/7. I listen to information, read what is available and then make my decisions. So far, everything is telling me that this thing is being blown out of proportion. The news media does it for sensationalism. The government officials like the power trip they are on. And I believe that Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx are looking at this from a purely medical perspective. It is not their job to worry about the affects on the economy. However, we need someone that DOES put it into perspective before we bankrupt most of the small businesses in this country.

I for one, am not going to cower under the bed, waiting for the all clear. I believe that we can open the economy back up while employing a little common sense. If your sick or have a fever, stay home. Practice good hygiene and be responsible for yourself, just like we do during flu season. 

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't see much evidence unless one gets notably locked into the idea something hinkey must be afoot (I had an engineer roommate who got really into 9/11 theories because of the video of the way the towers fell).

But you mention the skepticism you have for what amounts to expertise, and it points to something interesting which is something most folks do (I'm sure I have), which is apply skepticism at a high degree to things that are more established (recognized epidemiologists, the CDC) but very little to things that allow us to see the world in a more sensational manner (our tweet from someone screaming into the political void with a factual error or the doctor on the TV when coming out of the shower). Because here's the thing, you have indicated you'd like it to be the case that we're all overreacting. That this is all so bad and the people who can make changes are wrong and you know the truth. But if that's the case, we need to be extra skeptical of those who beef up those feelings that make us feel most right. There are many, many people who will give us partial answer and wrap it in innuendo, often for their own profit or profile.

It's possible the government is highly over counting. But that doesn't seem much more possible than highly undercounting. And if it does because of these dribs and drabs, it's worth being as skeptical of those as anything else. That said, the you're willing to risk your life over this to ensure the economy only takes a large hit rather than a massive one is noble, standing for your beliefs.

(On the boat part, you're saying the political muscle of NYC should've just cut through military bureaucracy/red tape and possibly expose military personnel to coronavirus? And the lack of it happening must've meant that actually there weren't enough patients? I also looked through the previous two days of Cuomo, no mention of heart attacks, strokes or emergencies in that context)

That's effing terrible


(I have no good advice other than a protracted legal battle usually sounds painful)

I would find an employment lawyer who will talk to you for an hour or so without a charge.  Lay it out for him, and perhaps have him (or her) call the company and "explain" to them.  My own next steps would hinge on how easy it would be for me now to find another eq. job.  If it's easy, I'm going to take say 6 months sep, if not, I'd probably sue.  A lawyer might well take this on contingency.

If you were fired "for cause", they need to lay out specifically what that cause was, and that is grist for the mill, so to speak.  Obviously keep any communications, performance reviews over time, etc. in your possession.

I'm sure they're offering so you don't seek legal action.

That said, not knowing any of the details of the situation, your industry, your other job prospects in the next three months, sadly I don't think I have enough information to tell you whether legal action or walking is the right option.

All I can say is that I wish you luck.

This is where I'm at Kris.


I wish you all the best. Please let us know how you make out.

I'm sure they're offering so you don't seek legal action.

That said, not knowing any of the details of the situation, your industry, your other job prospects in the next three months, sadly I don't think I have enough information to tell you whether legal action or walking is the right option.

All I can say is that I wish you luck.

I’m in pharmaceutical sales. Same company since 2008 when I got into the industry. Started with a different division within the company in late 2017.  This guy is my 5th manager with the company. The previous 4 had all been very happy with my performance and I had enjoyed a successful career prior to making the jump to this division.

The territory had  been struggling to meet quota prior to me coming over and continued to struggle once I was in my role, but I have a territory partner who has been there for 9 years now.  So successes and failures as far as sales results are shared. I don’t get all the credit or all the blame for sales numbers.  I’m not judged solely on sales results. There is a subjective component to it as well.

After getting off to a terrific start in the first quarter of 2019 our numbers fell off a cliff. It was as dramatic a change in direction as I’ve ever seen.  My manager zeroed in on me as the reason and began a systematic process to remove me from the company.  Every field travel report starting in July painted me as someone who had no impact with my customers and failing to meet the expectations of my role.

In order to be fair and make sure he wasn’t seeing something no one else was he sent someone from training to ride with me in September of last year.  But prior to the guy riding with me my manager briefed him on what he thought my weaknesses were. After two days with me the guy seemed generally happy with my messaging in front of customers. He had basic coaching points for areas of improvement  but nothing out of the ordinary. However, he never provided any documentation of our time together. When I asked my manager why that was he stated that given his role he wasn’t allowed to write a Field Travel Report. When I asked him what the guy communicated to him he  said, “He recognized the same gaps in performance that I did.”

He then sent my RM (his boss) to ride with me in October. For a number of logistical reasons that are too long to get into the day got off to a bad start and never recovered because I told him I would pick him up at 10:30. He got in the car in a bad mood and it showed. If I had that day to do over again I would have picked him up at 7:00 and driven a couple of hours to an office and then driven back to where our lunch appointment was that day. But anyway, he was unhappy with the day and it was reflected in his FTR.


However, he came back to ride with me in November and we had a very good day together and his FTR reflected that. As I was taking him to the airport he commented, “I saw things out of you that make me think you can do this job.” Despite that I was put on a Performance Improvement Plan on December 10 of last year.

I knew it was a formality though. My manager stated he had to see subjective improvement and I knew we were too far gone for that to take place. Through a chain of events I found out in February that my manager had turned in the unfavorable FTR from my RM in October to HR but not the more favorable one from November. In fact, he still has a copy of the one from October but claims he didn’t keep a copy of the one from November. My RM said he didn’t have a copy either. But I still had my copy and I had assumed it had been turned over to HR to go in my file.

When I found that out I immediately filed a written grievance and hostile work environment claim.  Employee Relations immediately downplayed my concerns saying that while the FTR hadn’t been turned in they were verbally made aware of the day in November and while some improvement had been shown it wasn’t enough. When I asked what my manager’s reasoning was for turning in one document and not the other I was told they weren’t at liberty to discuss that but it had been addressed with him.

So then yesterday happened and unless they extend the severance package I have a decision to make. I have a buddy who is an attorney and he absolutely thinks I have a case but also warned me of what can be a long, frustrating process in pursuing that.

Now, this is a very large company with a highly prized public image to preserve, and the image is that everyone working there is the best and the brightest (literally) and they are all delighted to work there.  They also have very deep pockets of course.

So P & G

Statistics is not math.