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Topic: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #378 on: July 13, 2021, 08:42:04 AM »
So, this got me thinking, went back and did a little math.
2019: 8
2018: 5
2017: 6
2016: 9
2015: 10

That's the number of P5 teams without a loss at the halfway point. So basically, halfway through the season, most of these games are not that kind of important. Which really does make the idea that every game counts ring hollow.

What I think it's really saying is there's a certain kind of wistful love for a particular brand of standings watching.

There's nothing wrong with it. We all see sports through different lenses. ELA really liked the mechanics of standings tied to bowl assignments. I tend to look at final records and the weight that comes with them. And a lot of people liked the sort of grinding, speculative viewing of wondering who makes it to seasons end with that "-0," in some ways the highest honor in the sport.

If anything, that makes most of the games beside the point. I watch my team do whatever, I keep an eye on 8 or so games to see, will someone biff this? Hell, 1-3 of those undefeateds listed above you usually don't pay much mind anyway (think that Nebraska team started 7-0).

So we're not really losing the idea that "EVERY GAME MATTERS" or even that the first two conference games were extra important (since you put three bodybags and Bill Doba Washington State on eh slate). It's that this particular brand of standings watching was a certain kind of fun, and maybe we'll lose something without it.
 
Counting off undefeateds has always been part of my CFB experience, and maybe it’ll mean less if it decides byes or whatever. But looking back, so much time was spent on handwringing over speculation (part of the fun, I suppose), and little respect for the weird quirks around all of it, I imagine we’ll adapt and continue to enjoy in about as natural a way as we would.
As @OrangeAfroMan pointed out above, this is not correct because historically after your team lost one game they were not completely eliminated.  Instead, they just needed help.  

I vaguely remember, pre-internet, keeping pre-season magazines because they contained schedules for every team.  Then, when my team needed teams above them to lose I would refer back to the pre-season magazines to review the schedules of the teams ahead of the Buckeyes to figure out the possible paths to the NC for my team.  

Pre-BCS example, 1993:
Ohio State got all the way up to #3 behind FSU and ND prior to their tie with #15 Wisconsin.  After tying Wisconsin they dropped to #5 (incidentally UW only rose to #14 because they already had a loss to a bad MN team).  

After the tie, in the Nov 9 poll the 8-0-1 Buckeyes were #5 behind:
  • 9-0 FSU
  • 9-0 Notre Dame
  • 7-1 Miami
  • 9-0 Nebraska
So then, as a fan, I looked at all the schedules to determine each of those teams' most likely loss:
  • FSU had #2 Notre Dame in South Bend on 11/13 and #8 Florida in Gainesville on 11/27
  • ND had #1 FSU in South Bend on 11/13
  • Miami had #9 WVU in Morgantown on 11/20
  • Nebraska had #17 Oklahoma in Lincoln on 11/26
Plus each would obviously have a bowl game.  Thus my rooting interests were clear.  I needed to root for:
  • FSU over ND on 11/13 (this game was the first of what became ESPN Gameday).  
  • UF over FSU on 11/27
  • WVU over Miami on 11/20
  • OU over UNL on 11/26

A decent amount of that actually did happen.  ND beat FSU but it didn't matter because they lost a hangover game the next week to Boston College.  WVU beat Miami on 11/20.  

Games still mattered after a loss (or tie) but you needed lots of help.  

This is where I think that expanding the playoff will kill the goose that lays the golden eggs:

When you need other teams to lose, it gives you a rooting interest in other games.  Thus, a fan of Ohio State suddenly finds themselves as a fan of FSU in an FSU/ND game then as a fan of UF in a UF/FSU game, then as a fan of WVU in a WVU/Miami game, then as a fan of OU in an OU/UNL game, etc.  Fans of all the contenders find themselves with an interest in all the other contenders' games.  Thus, I watched FSU/ND because it mattered to my team.  Back in the 1990's when NC Contender tOSU teams were losing to Michigan seemingly every year, fans of EVERY other contender in the nation were cheering Michigan on because they needed tOSU to lose to make room for their team to move up.  

Now consider the exact same situation today:
My tOSU fandom doesn't create ANY rooting interest in FSU/ND, UF/FSU, WVU/Miami, or OU/UNL because my team can make the playoff regardless of the outcome of those games.  

This is why I disagree with @ELA 's contention that the MAC Championship matters.  I get where he is coming from in that it matters whether the Falcons or Eagles get into the playoff but that doesn't have any impact on the ability of any other team to get in.  The rest of us would simply know that either the Falcons or Eagles will get a spot but which one has no bearing on our own teams' ability to get in.  Those two will decide their ONE spot between themselves and that is it.  

With a 12-team playoff basically all of those teams are getting in so the only thing on the table is the order and why do I care whether ND or FSU is #1?  Either way it isn't my team.  


FearlessF

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #379 on: July 13, 2021, 08:48:37 AM »
yes, back in the good old daze, if ranked in the top 4, your team might still have a chance during the bowls on Jan 1st
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #380 on: July 13, 2021, 08:56:33 AM »
When OSU lost to USC, they were completely eliminated. There was absolutely nothing they could do in order to get back into it at that point. Hence the reason that they pulled the plug on the Big Ten season before it even started. 

Florida DOES get a mulligan built in every year, as do all SEC teams. So I understand Fro's selfish desire to cling to that advantage. But I don't understand why anyone outside of the SEC fanbase would want it to continue. 

Cincydawg

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #381 on: July 13, 2021, 09:01:38 AM »
Don't most one loss P5 teams get due consideration for a four team playoff spot?


FearlessF

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #382 on: July 13, 2021, 09:04:53 AM »
yes, even PAC and Big 12 teams, but not both of them if there are 2
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

bayareabadger

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #383 on: July 13, 2021, 09:15:32 AM »
Obviously it IS aggravating when your team loses but the fact that a single loss can crush your team's Championship chances but that is what makes each game so exciting. 

A random mid-season game against a mediocre Purdue squad can ruin your season. That makes every game exciting because each game has a huge impact. I love the intensity that creates. That is apparently about to end.
If the perk of this is that 80-90 percent of team's seasons are "ruined" by this standard by the middle of the season, we can see why there might be some issue with it and why it points out that this doesn't really mean "every game matters." It means every game in theory could matter at the start of the season, but most won't, at least in a national title context.

And that's fine. It's fine to say this scoreboard watching is fun, and that the system that prioritizes this means scheduling a losable game is a poor idea. But it's just a different format for a different kind of race. We're nearly 25 years removed from those messy bowl seasons, where one upset cued up a bunch of messy shifts and someone popped out ahead at the end. I'm sure those were marvelous in their way, but weirdly, people don't even talk about them in a historical context.

Anyway, I'll be interested to see what's next. I came up watching the BSC standings, counting off losses, waiting for the computers and then the polls to deliver some matchup. Maybe that was the pinnacle. Maybe this will turn out fine.

(I'm also reminded of how at the start of the 2014 season, the Big Ten was "eliminated" in like Week 3, and would have stayed that way but for a nice stroke of luck surrounding the Big 12. Would've been eliminated for sure in the old system)

Cincydawg

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #384 on: July 13, 2021, 09:19:03 AM »
If SEC teams get undue consideration in a four teamer, how much will they get with 12?

Will there be a limit?

Imagine the complaining if we see four SEC teams make the playoffs.

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #385 on: July 13, 2021, 09:21:41 AM »
I expect 4 SEC teams to make annually in a 12 team playoff. 

By rule they can't get 12 teams in, nor can they gobble up all four of the byes, so I'm good with it. 

utee94

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #386 on: July 13, 2021, 09:29:34 AM »
If SEC teams get undue consideration in a four teamer, how much will they get with 12?

Will there be a limit?

Imagine the complaining if we see four SEC teams make the playoffs.

They'll just fix it by expanding to 32 and letting all 14 SEC teams in every year.

FearlessF

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #387 on: July 13, 2021, 09:42:57 AM »


And that's fine. It's fine to say this scoreboard watching is fun, and that the system that prioritizes this means scheduling a losable game is a poor idea. But it's just a different format for a different kind of race. We're nearly 25 years removed from those messy bowl seasons, where one upset cued up a bunch of messy shifts and someone popped out ahead at the end. I'm sure those were marvelous in their way, but weirdly, people don't even talk about them in a historical context.


check 1983 Hurricanes with Smellenburger
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #388 on: July 13, 2021, 10:44:26 AM »
Obviously it IS aggravating when your team loses but the fact that a single loss can crush your team's Championship chances but that is what makes each game so exciting. 

A random mid-season game against a mediocre Purdue squad can ruin your season. That makes every game exciting because each game has a huge impact. I love the intensity that creates. That is apparently about to end.
Yeah, but to anyone not a Purdue or OSU fan, that game was only exciting after the fact...

Do you think an average SEC fan or B12 fan or ACC fan was tuning in to that game? If it hadn't been the prime-time game, would any other B1G fans make that game an appointment viewing game?

The only extra excitement might have been people who saw a halftime score and tuned in thinking "what the hell is happening?" or those who woke up the next morning thinking "what the hell happened?" It wasn't that people were going to tune in to watch based on the 1% chance that Purdue pulls the massive blowout upset...

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #389 on: July 13, 2021, 10:51:01 AM »
I should point out, as a Purdue fan I happened to be in Denver with my wife and in-laws that weekend.

I deliberately had the thought going into the weekend "Oh well, I don't missing the Purdue game... We're just going to get killed anyway."

As it happened, we had dinner at a place that had TV's and were showing the games, so I was catching most of the first half anyway. And then after dinner we ended up going to the hotel bar for a nightcap and they had the games on, so we actually got to see it all. Which was exciting. 

But I'm a fan, and it's my team, and I was completely sanguine about missing the game because I knew the odds of a Purdue win were miniscule, much less the exciting blowout we saw. 

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #390 on: July 13, 2021, 10:54:07 AM »
I also like that somehow, I'm always wrong.

At least you are consistent. 


FearlessF

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #391 on: July 13, 2021, 10:55:39 AM »
yup, many CFB fans saw or were told a score and the upset alert spread like wildfire

2nd half ratings exploded
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 12:19:06 PM by FearlessF »
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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