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Topic: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #336 on: June 30, 2021, 11:18:17 AM »
In 2031, Florida's OOC looks like this:
@ Texas
Arizona St
@ ND
Florida St
I am hopeful although not confident that with the anticipated CFP expansion to 12 teams the imperative to "never schedule a loss" will be mitigated and major programs will start scheduling to maximize viewers/ratings/ticket prices rather than to get easy wins.  

In the BCS era or prior it would have been ludicrous for Florida (or any other potential NC Contender) to schedule like that because a loss in any one of those games would have been likely to be fatal to the team's NC hopes.  Assuming that those four schools were all at roughly their average strength in the year that UF plays them, 3-1 against them would be REALLY good.  Ie, Florida could be NC good and still lose one of those four.  Now that AD's are anticipating 12 CFP slots they can reasonably assume that their team WILL get in with a loss and with a MONSTER SoS like that, they can reasonably assume that 10-3 or better would be safely in the CFP.  

ELA

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #337 on: June 30, 2021, 11:44:47 AM »
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Also, EMU has a good chance to win the MAC?  Also, isn't Iowa State a consensus top 10 team?

FearlessF

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #338 on: June 30, 2021, 12:00:57 PM »
it would seem to me that Iowa state has a better chance than Frank's Ohio Bobcats
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

medinabuckeye1

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #339 on: July 12, 2021, 07:13:38 PM »
General reply to the 4/6/8/12/16 discussion.  

In my view, 12 is the worst possible next step.  It has nearly all the disadvantages of 16 without the balance.  

Expansion in general dilutes the regular season, this is unavoidable.  The current 4-team playoff still mostly maintains the old "every game matters" aspect that most of us love about CFB because one game really can quash a team's CFP hopes.  Ohio State in the CFP era is a great example of this:

  • 2014:  A single OOC loss to VaTech nearly killed tOSU's CFP dreams.  
  • 2015:  A single loss to MSU kept tOSU out of the CFP.  
  • 2016:  A single loss to PSU nearly killed tOSU's CFP dreams.  
  • 2017:  Two losses kept tOSU out of the CFP.  They'd have likely been in with one loss.  
  • 2018:  A single loss to PU kept tOSU out of the CFP.  
  • 2019:  tOSU was undefeated until the CFP.  
  • 2020:  tOSU was undefeated until the CFP.  
In seven years of the 4-team CFP the Buckeyes have finished:
  • Undefeated twice (2019, 2020) and made the CFP both times.  
  • 1-loss and B1G Champion twice (2014, 2018) made CFP once, missed once.  
  • 1-loss and non-Champion twice (2015, 2016) made CFP once, missed once.  
  • 2 losses and B1G Champion once (2017) missed CFP.  

Ie, one game is still a REALLY big deal.  Ohio State's four one-loss teams made the CFP 50% of the time.  

By going to 12 teams, every P5 school will effectively be granted a mulligan.  Lowest ranked 1-loss P5 school in final CFP rankings:
  • 2020:  #11 Indiana
  • 2019:  #4 Oklahoma
  • 2018:  #6 Ohio State
  • 2017:  #6 Wisconsin
  • 2016:  #4 Washington
  • 2015:  #7 Ohio State
  • 2014:  #6 TCU
All of those teams would easily have made it into a 12-team field.  

Thus, the 12-team field will completely eliminate the "every game matters" aspect of the sport and replace it with an "every game matter after your first loss" concept.  

Second, differentiation between seeds:
The proposal stratifies the 12 teams into three groups:
  • The top-4:  They get a bye and automatic bid to the quarter-finals.  
  • The 5-8:  They get to host their first round game.  
  • The last four 9-12:  They have to play a road game opener.   
The problem, as I see it, is that there is very little difference within those groups.  Regardless of whether you are #1 or #4 either way you get a bye then a very good opponent at a neutral site in the quarter-finals.  Realistically, #4's opponent will not be significantly tougher than #1's opponent.  Similarly, the difference between #5 and #8 and the difference between #9 and #12 is, IMHO, rather insignificant.  

Why I think 8 would be better:
The "every game matters" aspect would be at least partially maintained for two reasons:
  • Because there would be a HUMONGOUS difference between being #1 and being #4.  This is likely a difference between going undefeated and going 12-1.  
  • Because there would only be two at-large spots so it would still be at least plausible that a 1-loss P5 non-Champion might be left out.  It probably isn't likely but if Bama misses the SECCG due to a freak play (see Kick-6 vs Auburn) and tOSU misses the B1GCG due to a single loss (see 2015 to MSU or 2016 to PSU) then those two are likely to get the two at-large spots and everybody else needs to win the CG.  

Second there would be significant differentiation between seeds.  The #1 seed would get the G5 weaking and an easy home game while the #2 would get a MUCH stronger opponent.  Most years there would be a rather significant increase in quality from #8 to #7 and from #7 to #6 and from #6 to #5 which means that there would be a significant advantage to being #1 rather than #2 or #2 rather than #3 or #3 rather than #4.  

ELA

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #340 on: July 12, 2021, 08:17:44 PM »
I only liked the 12 if it included 10 auto-bids, and did away with divisions to ensure the best two teams played in conference championships.

Then, every conference race matters.  If the Sun Belt champ can go beat an SEC runner up in a TRUE ROAD game, good on them, that SEC runner up shouldn't have been in that situation, and 99% of the time would be a de facto 8 team tournament, with the 5 Power 5 champs, 2 best at larges and best Group of 5.  That was my ideal format anyway, but this way you have a reason to "care" about the MAC Championship, even if it just results in Central Michigan going to Athens and losing 56-14 to Georgia the next week.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #341 on: July 12, 2021, 08:24:01 PM »
I only liked the 12 if it included 10 auto-bids, and did away with divisions to ensure the best two teams played in conference championships.

Then, every conference race matters.  If the Sun Belt champ can go beat an SEC runner up in a TRUE ROAD game, good on them, that SEC runner up shouldn't have been in that situation, and 99% of the time would be a de facto 8 team tournament, with the 5 Power 5 champs, 2 best at larges and best Group of 5.  That was my ideal format anyway, but this way you have a reason to "care" about the MAC Championship, even if it just results in Central Michigan going to Athens and losing 56-14 to Georgia the next week.
As you know I am definitely NOT a fan of giving auto-bids to "tallest midget" champions from minor conferences but I think that six is WAY too many at-large slots so in a 12-team playoff that would make some sense.  

Instead, as it looks now we are going to end up killing the "every game matters" aspect by creating a situation where literally any 1-loss P5 will get in and at least half of the 2-loss P5's will likely get in as well.  

As much as I DO NOT like expanding the playoff field I honestly think that 16 makes more sense than 12.  With 16 I could get behind 10 Champions and six at-large provided that the eight best league champions hosted the first round.  That way at least there would be a major detriment to being a non-Champion because you'd have to play your first round game on the road.  

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #342 on: July 12, 2021, 08:38:37 PM »


I know it is a CFB tradition outside of the SEC to have your entire season derailed by a singular blemish, but are you really going to miss it all that much? It's not like it was some fun thing that we will no longer get to experience, like some rivalry that was split up by Conference realignment. It was actually rather aggravating, I dare say. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #343 on: July 12, 2021, 08:41:10 PM »
It 
makes
every
game
important
until
you
lose.
.
It's the one thing separating college football from every other team sport.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #344 on: July 12, 2021, 08:42:24 PM »
I only liked the 12 if it included 10 auto-bids, and did away with divisions to ensure the best two teams played in conference championships.

Then, every conference race matters.  If the Sun Belt champ can go beat an SEC runner up in a TRUE ROAD game, good on them, that SEC runner up shouldn't have been in that situation, and 99% of the time would be a de facto 8 team tournament, with the 5 Power 5 champs, 2 best at larges and best Group of 5.  That was my ideal format anyway, but this way you have a reason to "care" about the MAC Championship, even if it just results in Central Michigan going to Athens and losing 56-14 to Georgia the next week.
The problem isn't merely a blowout, but also an opportunity for an important injury for the team favored by 30.  Screws them for the next round.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #345 on: July 12, 2021, 08:44:39 PM »
Yeah, nothing like pulling a plug on a season before the conference slate even starts because you lost a game to a top five team that you scheduled OOC instead of an FCS team like everyone else. 

Good times. 

ELA

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #346 on: July 12, 2021, 08:46:35 PM »
The problem isn't merely a blowout, but also an opportunity for an important injury for the team favored by 30.  Screws them for the next round.
Then win your conference

ELA

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #347 on: July 12, 2021, 08:48:36 PM »
As you know I am definitely NOT a fan of giving auto-bids to "tallest midget" champions from minor conferences but I think that six is WAY too many at-large slots so in a 12-team playoff that would make some sense. 
Yeah, I sort of agree.  But I think this blends entertainment with results.  It gives you sort of a reason to care about all of the conference races, while knowing that they are almost never going to win a true road game against a top 8 team.  It is basically an 8 team tournament that still allows all of the conference races to "matter"

bayareabadger

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #348 on: July 12, 2021, 09:39:58 PM »
The problem isn't merely a blowout, but also an opportunity for an important injury for the team favored by 30.  Screws them for the next round.
I kinda want to say this with a swear, but it's football. Every play is a chance to get hurt. It's a super violent game. Bodybag games are opportunities for that too, but we soldier on somehow. 

FearlessF

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #349 on: July 12, 2021, 10:09:53 PM »
The problem isn't merely a blowout, but also an opportunity for an important injury for the team favored by 30.  Screws them for the next round.
so, have your important players sit out the game or at least the 2nd half when you're up by 30
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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