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Topic: Schools where players at certain positions go to die

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FearlessF

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Re: Schools where players at certain positions go to die
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2020, 08:35:37 PM »
Jim doesn't seem the whisperer he was advertised as.......
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

bayareabadger

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Re: Schools where players at certain positions go to die
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2020, 11:57:35 PM »
Yeah my hope is McCarthy sticks with Michigan, redshirts and then Jim goes back to the NFL in 2022 and maybe Gattis takes over.

Jim bolted for the NFL and Stanford only got better under David Shaw. Similar thing could always happen again lol.
Michigan hope machine. 

847badgerfan

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Re: Schools where players at certain positions go to die
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2020, 09:38:25 AM »
Jim doesn't seem the whisperer he was advertised as.......
Quite the opposite.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Mdot21

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Re: Schools where players at certain positions go to die
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2020, 07:03:57 PM »
Quite the opposite.
I think ELA said it right way back when. Jim is a QB maximizer. Not a QB whisperer or developer.

Jim can’t develop a QB for shit but he can take a QB and get them to play well. But he doesn’t make them better over time. If that makes sense. 

Lincoln Riley, Ryan Day, and Mike Leach are the only guys I would label as QB whisperers. They seem to be able to take anyone and turn them into stars that can put up huge numbers. Jim is nowhere near their level.

Mdot21

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Re: Schools where players at certain positions go to die
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2020, 07:22:33 PM »
Michigan hope machine.
Jim has served his purpose. He's turned Michigan around from being a laughing stock into a viable program. He's a turnaround artist, not a guy who can sustain a program and build a foundation to build it into something more. He can turn around things quickly, but then he fizzles. He wears everyone out. The players, the other coaches, the administrators, and even the fans. I believe that is what's happening. He's fizzling out.

Lloyd Carr's last 7 seasons at Michigan his winning % was 73%.

The following 7 seasons after he left, with RichRod and Hoke? 52%.

Jim Harbaugh's winning % in his 5 years at Michigan? 72%.

He put the thing back on solid footing, and now it's time to move on.

Jim can't beat Ohio State, he's really sucked in bowl games- losing two bowl games inexplicably that he absolutely should've won in FSU and South Carolina- he can't develop a QB to save his life, and Michigan's recruiting has taken a major dive from where it was after it lost by far it's two best overall recruiters in Chris Partridge and Greg Mattison and by far it's best recruiter in Detroit in Tyrone Wheatley.

I think promoting Gattis or Don Brown to HC and letting Jim leave for the NFL is best for all parties involved.

bayareabadger

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Re: Schools where players at certain positions go to die
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2020, 08:34:49 PM »
Jim has served his purpose. He's turned Michigan around from being a laughing stock into a viable program. He's a turnaround artist, not a guy who can sustain a program and build a foundation to build it into something more. He can turn around things quickly, but then he fizzles. He wears everyone out. The players, the other coaches, the administrators, and even the fans. I believe that is what's happening. He's fizzling out.

Lloyd Carr's last 7 seasons at Michigan his winning % was 73%.

The following 7 seasons after he left, with RichRod and Hoke? 52%.

Jim Harbaugh's winning % in his 5 years at Michigan? 72%.

He put the thing back on solid footing, and now it's time to move on.

Jim can't beat Ohio State, he's really sucked in bowl games- losing two bowl games inexplicably that he absolutely should've won in FSU and South Carolina- he can't develop a QB to save his life, and Michigan's recruiting has taken a major dive from where it was after it lost by far it's two best overall recruiters in Chris Partridge and Greg Mattison and by far it's best recruiter in Detroit in Tyrone Wheatley.

I think promoting Gattis or Don Brown to HC and letting Jim leave for the NFL is best for all parties involved.
I mean, Jim can't beat OSU because OSU has usually been stupid good. There's maybe one year you could argue Michigan should've won. Another where the matchup was just not gonna let it happen. 

Anyway, it's that last part that's all Michigan hope machine. Sending off the head man and promoting the assistant ain't gonna be the key to making the jump.

FearlessF

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Re: Schools where players at certain positions go to die
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2020, 08:38:57 PM »
true, but thinking that Michigan can't be stupid good enough to beat Ohio st as normal is a defeatest attitude
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

bayareabadger

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Re: Schools where players at certain positions go to die
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2020, 08:52:46 PM »
true, but thinking that Michigan can't be stupid good enough to beat Ohio st as normal is a defeatest attitude
It is. 

And if their admin thinks Gattis or Brown is gonna suddenly make Michigan a top-4 team consistently, God bless em. But they probably won't. 

And if you keep chasing that top-4, you might just go from 9-11 wins being normal to 6 or fewer wins not being abnormal. 

Mdot21

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Re: Schools where players at certain positions go to die
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2020, 08:54:06 PM »
I mean, Jim can't beat OSU because OSU has usually been stupid good. There's maybe one year you could argue Michigan should've won. Another where the matchup was just not gonna let it happen.

Anyway, it's that last part that's all Michigan hope machine. Sending off the head man and promoting the assistant ain't gonna be the key to making the jump.
Yeah, no. 2015 they were over-matched and you can say the same thing about 2018 and 2019.

But they should've won in 2016, and in 2017 that was a 1 point game going into the 4th QTR and Ohio State was without it's starting QB, and what happened in both those games? Jim Harbaugh and Don Brown's coaching absolutely shit the bed in those two games down the stretch.

WTF is Michigan hope machine? Like wtf are you even talking about? I seriously hate when people make up stupid little phrases to make themselves look smart. Dumbasses in the media do this constantly. So please just stop. Has nothing to do with some hypothetical hope machine. Harbaugh has worn out his welcome. It's that simple. He's getting paid $9 million a year if you include the annuity and other benefits- and he hasn't produced anything for that huge sum of money. All the little antics and all of his weirdo bullshit- the fans are growing tired of it. Shut the f up and win. The guy has gotten everything he's asked for in terms of money for himself and assistants- the Jordan uniforms, all the traveling and taking the entire team to Rome and South Africa and Paris- all of his satellite camps whatever the hell he wants the AD gives him. He effectively hasn't had a boss in his 5 years he's been at Michigan. And what does he have to show for his 5 years? He's got nothing but excuses to show for it. He's a false messiah. And a f$$king weirdo to boot. He's done his job, time to go.

Mdot21

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Re: Schools where players at certain positions go to die
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2020, 09:00:05 PM »
It is.

And if their admin thinks Gattis or Brown is gonna suddenly make Michigan a top-4 team consistently, God bless em. But they probably won't.

And if you keep chasing that top-4, you might just go from 9-11 wins being normal to 6 or fewer wins not being abnormal.
Who said Brown or Gattis would take them there? What promoting from within would help prevent is a collapse like you saw with Carr leaving. Had Michigan promoted from within and Carr been able to name a successor- Michigan doesn't fall off the map like they did.

To be a top 4 team you need a Nick Saban or Urban Meyer. And those guys don't grow on trees. I don't know what the hell Clemson and Georgia have done to get to that level- because I think Dabo and Kirby aren't anything special as coaches- they just recruit like hell. I really think maybe dollar dollar bills y'all are involved there. Because I can't explain those two guys.

Urban and Saban recruiting like animals- I understand- those are two of the 3 greatest college coaches ever.

rolltidefan

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Re: Schools where players at certain positions go to die
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2020, 09:11:00 PM »
Kicker - Bama 

Mdot21

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Re: Schools where players at certain positions go to die
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2020, 09:25:20 PM »
Kicker - Bama
I could never understand this. Saban gets the best players from everywhere in the country. You'd think he could get a great kicker once in awhile.

bayareabadger

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Re: Schools where players at certain positions go to die
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2020, 09:35:39 PM »
Yeah, no. 2015 they were over-matched and you can say the same thing about 2018 and 2019.

But they should've won in 2016, and in 2017 that was a 1 point game going into the 4th QTR and Ohio State was without it's starting QB, and what happened in both those games? Jim Harbaugh and Don Brown's coaching absolutely shit the bed in those two games down the stretch.

WTF is Michigan hope machine? Like wtf are you even talking about? I seriously hate when people make up stupid little phrases to make themselves look smart. Dumbasses in the media do this constantly. So please just stop. Has nothing to do with some hypothetical hope machine. Harbaugh has worn out his welcome. It's that simple. He's getting paid $9 million a year if you include the annuity and other benefits- and he hasn't produced anything for that huge sum of money. All the little antics and all of his weirdo bullshit- the fans are growing tired of it. Shut the f up and win. The guy has gotten everything he's asked for in terms of money for himself and assistants- the Jordan uniforms, all the traveling and taking the entire team to Rome and South Africa and Paris- all of his satellite camps whatever the hell he wants the AD gives him. He effectively hasn't had a boss in his 5 years he's been at Michigan. And what does he have to show for his 5 years? He's got nothing but excuses to show for it. He's a false messiah. And a f$$king weirdo to boot. He's done his job, time to go.
Michigan was a 12-point underdog on the road that lost when a first-round draft pick came in off the bench in 2017. CRAZY.

And I'll explain the Michigan hope machine.

I've been on this board something like 13-14 years. And not one's optimism burns so bright and then burns out in such a fashion as Michigan's. It hasn't helped that I've seen the Rich Rod era and the Hoke era, but each time I've heard how this guy fits exactly what they want, and then it all goes to shit with how they feel about the coach. 

This time, Michigan fans got the guy who led three great turnarounds. Who turned Stanford into a powerful team and led a team to a Super Bowl. He had a resume stupid good enough it seemed kinda crazy he took the damn job at all. And here we are at the same point.

But Josh Gattis or Don Brown is actually gonna be the answer? Nope. Just a different name I'll be hearing the same things about in five years. Shoot, maybe they can pay them less so I can hear about how they won't open the pocket books the new coach like they did for Jim. 

It's tough shit. This is Michigan football, mostly bouncing between 9-11 wins with the occasional 8. The best coach in modern program history specialized in losing Rose Bowls and not outright winning the conference with 1-loss teams. And that was before the in-state talent gap became a chasm. For the most part, this is their station. They just got lucky when OSU hired some worse coaches.

I'll stop calling it the hope machine when I stop seeing over the top hope burn out over and over. IF they wanna try to fire their way through, fine, but no need to be surprised when it goes sideways. I'll stop calling it the hope machine when losing a 1-point lead as 12-point road underdog is taken in its proper context. FFS, you literally referred to Jimbo as a "false messiah." When the new shiny football coach is hailed with the same term for the Lord God Himself, I'll be fine saying Michigan produces more hope than it can handle. 

bayareabadger

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Re: Schools where players at certain positions go to die
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2020, 09:38:45 PM »
Who said Brown or Gattis would take them there? What promoting from within would help prevent is a collapse like you saw with Carr leaving. Had Michigan promoted from within and Carr been able to name a successor- Michigan doesn't fall off the map like they did.

To be a top 4 team you need a Nick Saban or Urban Meyer. And those guys don't grow on trees. I don't know what the hell Clemson and Georgia have done to get to that level- because I think Dabo and Kirby aren't anything special as coaches- they just recruit like hell. I really think maybe dollar dollar bills y'all are involved there. Because I can't explain those two guys.

Urban and Saban recruiting like animals- I understand- those are two of the 3 greatest college coaches ever.
Kirby controlled recruiting in one of the best states for it better than his predecessors and has had good enough coaching.

Dabo paid the right kids and has had almost every turning point moment swing his team's way. It helped that his admin had enough faith to not fret too much when they suffered a historic streak of losses in their rivalry and when they were banging their heads against the ceiling with FSU.

 

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