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Topic: Rich get richer

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Cincydawg

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2023, 10:33:54 AM »
If I was for the players, I would not watch football at all.  It's dangerous, some of them end up harmed for life, and many of them end up with those lingering issues.

I'd be for a ban.

Mdot21

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2023, 10:37:12 AM »
I don't know that these changes benefit most players.  You have this 85 man roster, often larger at home, and many never play a down.  Some get to play a few downs in a game, get sparing recognition, no NIL, take their lumps, some at least have scholarships but that hasn't changed.  They could portal, but then what?  To get PT they'd have to go to Ball State.

Some players obviously benefit financially, and can leap ship.  But some end up largely forgotten perhaps with lingering physical injuries.
the changes benefits all the players, period. there were guys on 85 man rosters that never played a down way before NIL or the portal. 99% always wound up largely forgotten with lingering physical injuries way before NIL or the portal. very few ever become star players in college, and even fewer actually make it to the NFL.

NIL allows these kids to actually make money off their god given abilities and hard work, which is long over due when you have head coaches making north of $10 million a year and schools pulling in hundreds of millions a year off football and conferences pulling in billions. The portal allows kids to not have to be locked into a school that they don't want to be at anymore without having to lose a year of eligibility, when coaches that recruited them can and do leave at will for bigger paychecks at other schools or in the NFL all the time.

utee94

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2023, 10:39:22 AM »
the changes benefits all the players, period. there were guys on 85 man rosters that never played a down way before NIL or the portal. 99% always wound up largely forgotten with lingering physical injuries way before NIL or the portal. very few ever become star players in college, and even fewer actually make it to the NFL.

NIL allows these kids to actually make money off their god given abilities and hard work, which is long over due when you have head coaches making north of $10 million a year and schools pulling in hundreds of millions a year and conferences billions. The portal allows kids to not have to be locked into a school that they don't want to be at anymore without having to lose a year of eligibility, when coaches that recruited them can and do leave at will for bigger paychecks at other schools or in the NFL all the time.

Yeah I think almost all of the major recent changes have benefitted the players.  The poor conditions cited by CD that exist today, also existed before NIL or the portal, but now players have at least some chance to address the problems and change their fate.


847badgerfan

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #45 on: August 31, 2023, 10:40:26 AM »
I'm gonna watch my school and have fun doing it. Better to win than lose, of course.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Mdot21

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #46 on: August 31, 2023, 10:43:19 AM »
I hear what you're saying, but is the game for the players, or is it for the fans?

If it's for the players, then they should all be fine with playing in front of nobody but their parents, in some back sandlots near the exit of the girls' gym.  Right?  And they should be fine with zero compensation of any kind, since the game is just for the players.  Right?

Except that's not how it works.  That's not how ANY of this works.

Without the fans there's no money to distribute to the coaches and players, there's no talk of NIL or "NFLization" of the sport.  There's no problems at all.  Line up your 11 best against the 11 best from some school a couple miles away, let the parents watch, and call it a day.
it's still for the players imo. they are the ones risking life and limb and potential brain injury week in week out. without them you have nothing for the fans to watch. fans just sit on their asses at home and watch tv or go to a tailgate and games here and there.

people watch college football to see the very best players play and compete at the highest level vs the best of the best. if a real minor league was ever started by the NFL and they paid all the top HS prospects and P5 was only getting try hards and kids that belong at Stanford or Yale the tv viewership would crater and the fans would disappear overnight.

utee94

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #47 on: August 31, 2023, 10:44:36 AM »
I'm gonna watch my school and have fun doing it. Better to win than lose, of course.
This is where I've landed, and gets back to some themes on this thread that others have mentioned.

It's supposed to be a game, and it's supposed to be fun to watch.  And I mean, watching each game itself, is supposed to be the fun part.  Watching the action that happens for 60 minutes, inside the white lines, on the gridiron, between two teams set to oppose one another.

All this stuff about worrying about the CFP and worrying about the polls and worrying about recruiting and worrying about NIL and worrying about the portal-- it's all unnecessary and for the most part it's negative bulljive.  It's a result of the nationalization of the sport and the 24/7 sports news cycle.  It's an invention of the mediots.  But we don't have to play their game.  We can choose our own way.

Anyway, Hook 'em Horns and ou sucks!


MaximumSam

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #48 on: August 31, 2023, 10:44:44 AM »
I'm pro-entertainment. The not paying players was just legalized theft, and I'm glad it has gone away. It's not entertaining to know someone is getting bilked out of their money. I'm less convinced on the transfers - part of college sports is seeing your guys develop and grow. College basketball is almost like everyone picks teams at the start of the year, which isn't particularly entertaining.

Mdot21

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #49 on: August 31, 2023, 10:49:17 AM »
I'm pro-entertainment. The not paying players was just legalized theft, and I'm glad it has gone away. It's not entertaining to know someone is getting bilked out of their money. I'm less convinced on the transfers - part of college sports is seeing your guys develop and grow. College basketball is almost like everyone picks teams at the start of the year, which isn't particularly entertaining.
I think a one time transfer portal rule is fine. sometimes kids don't want to be at a place anymore. let them go. it's almost like fans have an abusive boyfriend relationship where they want to force a chick that doesn't want to be around anymore to stay with them or else....

see no problem with someone going to a school, deciding hey this isn't for me, let me leave. shit happens. sometimes the kids made a bad decision in HS and decided to go to a wrong school. think the one time portal rule is fine. and I think if head coaches decide to leave or get fired via scandal (think Northwestern) that players should also have the right to explore a transfer without losing any eligbility.

Gigem

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #50 on: August 31, 2023, 11:08:11 AM »
Portal swings both ways.  Some players didn't do squat at their original school, they make something of themselves at the next stop.  Some players find that they just needed a smaller program from the get go, some matured in 2-3 years and going to "the next CFB Level" is a good move for them.  A guy at say, New Mexico, now has the opportunity to go to an Alabama or OU when they never even gave him a look out of High School.  He then gets to show his stuff on a larger stage, get more attention, better chances in the NFL, and probably better coaching, nutrition, strength conditioning, etc.  

In order to even the playing field I'd propose two things.  

#1- Limit the number of scholarship players from 85 down to maybe 75.  I know that it's tough having the necessary depth etc but the NFL does it with 55.  Obviously there are differences like trading players mid-season and promoting players from practice squads.  But if all teams have a cap of 75 or so, they all have the same limit.  The better teams will have to take less players, and the bubble 3/4* players will be pushed to the 2nd tier programs like Wisconsin, A&M, oSu, and such.  

#2- Make eligibility 5 years.  It's been said a lot that a college degree really takes 5 years.  My thought on it is that the smaller schools with less talent would benefit from players who aren't likely to turn pro, and there are a lot of really great CFB players who won't do squat in the NFL.  And if we're really moving away from the amateur model, who really gives a shit how long these guys play?  I say give em 5 years, no medical redshirts etc.  5 years from the first day they strap on pads or start practice.  

Obviously the #1 and #2 things interfere with each other because now they will be forced to sign less players per season, but each team should be affected equally.  Plus, there is always the portal to fill gaps.  

I also think there should be some kind of incentive for players who don't transfer.  Say the NCAA awards $XX,XXX dollars to athletes who finish their full 5 years at the same school.  

I've often thought that smaller schools like KSU, oSu, etc would greatly benefit from having those special players stay for that 5th year.  Players like Collin Klein who won't ever make waves in the NFL but are just great college FB players.  

Mdot21

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #51 on: August 31, 2023, 11:17:21 AM »
Portal swings both ways.  Some players didn't do squat at their original school, they make something of themselves at the next stop.  Some players find that they just needed a smaller program from the get go, some matured in 2-3 years and going to "the next CFB Level" is a good move for them.  A guy at say, New Mexico, now has the opportunity to go to an Alabama or OU when they never even gave him a look out of High School.  He then gets to show his stuff on a larger stage, get more attention, better chances in the NFL, and probably better coaching, nutrition, strength conditioning, etc. 

In order to even the playing field I'd propose two things. 

#1- Limit the number of scholarship players from 85 down to maybe 75.  I know that it's tough having the necessary depth etc but the NFL does it with 55.  Obviously there are differences like trading players mid-season and promoting players from practice squads.  But if all teams have a cap of 75 or so, they all have the same limit.  The better teams will have to take less players, and the bubble 3/4* players will be pushed to the 2nd tier programs like Wisconsin, A&M, oSu, and such. 

#2- Make eligibility 5 years.  It's been said a lot that a college degree really takes 5 years.  My thought on it is that the smaller schools with less talent would benefit from players who aren't likely to turn pro, and there are a lot of really great CFB players who won't do squat in the NFL.  And if we're really moving away from the amateur model, who really gives a shit how long these guys play?  I say give em 5 years, no medical redshirts etc.  5 years from the first day they strap on pads or start practice. 

Obviously the #1 and #2 things interfere with each other because now they will be forced to sign less players per season, but each team should be affected equally.  Plus, there is always the portal to fill gaps. 

I also think there should be some kind of incentive for players who don't transfer.  Say the NCAA awards $XX,XXX dollars to athletes who finish their full 5 years at the same school. 

I've often thought that smaller schools like KSU, oSu, etc would greatly benefit from having those special players stay for that 5th year.  Players like Collin Klein who won't ever make waves in the NFL but are just great college FB players. 
bolded part - that's a great idea. NCAA/schools should award players who finish their degrees- incentivize them to get a degree. great idea.

underlined part - NIL is already doing that. if you're a star player on a college team but not a high level rd 1-3 prospect, you'll make just as much or more staying in school and collecting fat NIL checks for your last year.

I also like the idea of limiting scholarships to 75. Don't think there is a need for 85. NFL does it with 53 roster spots plus 16 practice squad guys per team. 75 scholarship players should be more than enough. Spread the wealth. Make college coaches earn their insane paychecks with crack scouting & development.

MrNubbz

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #52 on: August 31, 2023, 11:29:25 AM »
I'm with you. I like all the changes because it benefits the player. At the end of the day that's all any fan should care about. The players.
How is NFLizing anything good for the community? You like rewarding the players fine,but I don't like additional taxes that benefit literally Billionaire owners and millionaire players to build their playhouse. Here in Cleveland there is a 23 yr old Stadium and real slimeball in a sea of puss owner Haslem wants to stick the taxpayers with either massive updates or a new facility. Let the owners or those who want to vote for the tax fund it. Bridges,roadways in disrepair or constant repair storm sewers flooding basements and all other civic resposibilities lagging and this asshole thinks we should fund his 230 million dollar QB? Let alone one that was known groper of woman even if he somehow found jesus. If I get my hands around Haslams neck he'll meet jesus alright

They hoodwink the masses to pay for this shit I honestly think the last one for the updates like 6-7-8 yrs a go was rigged/fixed. No one and I mean NO ONE I talked to voted for it. They don't want higher alcohol/Liquor prices that are already getting obscene.The only ones benefitting are the rich.There is a downtown parking lot near the stadium that has been a tailgate hotspot for years.Friends went down to a game last year and they were fetching 50.00 just to park.
the financial flatulence that has arisen in the cost of homes/cars/utilities/food and fuel can clearly be stemmed here Eff them it has to end sometime can't afford to park or go to the games and it's not a necessity. They reap the dividends let them make the investment.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2023, 11:44:50 AM by MrNubbz »
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847badgerfan

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #53 on: August 31, 2023, 11:33:28 AM »
bolded part - that's a great idea. NCAA/schools should award players who finish their degrees- incentivize them to get a degree. great idea.
Wisconsin already does this.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #54 on: August 31, 2023, 12:11:45 PM »
BTW I always considered the NC above Purdue's ceiling. Just finding some way to backdoor a conference championship and a trip to the Rose Bowl, maybe even a win(!) there, is about all that any Purdue fan thought would/could happen.

Realistically Purdue, to get enough votes in the old system, would have to go undefeated.

Counting the bowl game, Purdue hasn't had a season with 3 or fewer losses since they went 9-3 (with a bowl win) in 1997. Most recent 2-loss season (with a bowl win) was 1979. Most recent 2-loss regular season was 1969. Most recent one-loss season was 1958, but that season also had two ties to finish 6-1-2. Prior to that they had no more one-loss [or better] seasons until 1943, which incidentally is also their most recent undefeated season. But, ya know, there might be a little asterisk what with a World War on and all...

So at best would be an appearance in the Rose Bowl. Which Purdue is likely to never again do in my lifetime, other than playing a conference away game at UCLA, of course.
I did say it was a slim chance but hey, BYU was awarded one with a team that was no better than about 20th nationally so it did happen in the old days, it was just exceedingly rare.  

That said, you "dropping out" of CFB fandom and this comment from @ELA have me concerned for the health of the sport:
I love fall.  I love fall cooking.  I like Oktoberfest and pumpkin (sorry) beers.  I associate those things with college football, and thus it's all still somewhat intertwined.  But I certainly no longer love college football.  I'm not even sure I like it.  It has fallen behind the NFL and the MLB playoffs in my watching hierarchy
My concern is that we (here on this board) aren't "average" CFB fans.  We are the extreme fanatical outliers and if even we are losing interest, that has to be a bad sign!  

I note that the two examples here are fans of schools that are NOT helmets.  

As I see it, the CFP is sucking all the oxygen out of the room.  In the past it was a much more regional sport.  The most important thing to a Purdue fan as to beat Indiana and if anything beyond that, maybe knock off a helmet (ND, tOSU, or M for Purdue).  To an MSU fan the biggest goal was to knock off "big brother" followed by other helmets (ND, tOSU).  Then for both the possibility of winning the league (even if it was a split title) and possibly getting to or even potentially winning the Rose Bowl were plausibly achievable goals that kept fans of non-helmet schools interested.  

Note these comments:
I think pining for the past can be limiting, we can still enjoy the present, I think, or I do anyway (the last two seasons were pretty fun).
I'm with you. I like all the changes because it benefits the player. At the end of the day that's all any fan should care about. The players.  

@Cincydawg 's team won the last two NC's so his enjoying the present is hardly surprising.  @Mdot21 's team made the CFP the last two years so again, his enjoyment of the current system is hardly surprising.  

I'm in the same boat.  My team has been in the NC discussion almost every year so of course I'm still enjoying CFB.  

My concern is that I doubt that CFB can sustain itself with only fans of UGA, Bama, tOSU, M, and a few other schools that can actually compete once all the fans of PU, MSU and the rest of the non-helmets go the way of @betarhoalphadelta and @ELA and either drop out or decide that the NFL and the MLB playoffs are more important.  

utee94

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #55 on: August 31, 2023, 12:24:00 PM »

My concern is that I doubt that CFB can sustain itself with only fans of UGA, Bama, tOSU, M, and a few other schools that can actually compete once all the fans of PU, MSU and the rest of the non-helmets go the way of @betarhoalphadelta and @ELA and either drop out or decide that the NFL and the MLB playoffs are more important. 

Yup.  College football is absolutely killing the golden goose.

But College Football Armageddon is going to end the game as we know it, even before the greedy bastages manage to squeeze all the life out of that goose.

 

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