Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

Hmm.  Typically, I'd expect decreased demand to lower prices, not the other way around. 

But, market equilibrium is not an instantaneous thing, so it makes sense that there could be a period of time where companies raise their prices trying to offset moving less product. 

I get you on the "why can't stuff be cheap and simple like it used to be?" thing, though.  You being a factory-drone of the Big Blue Buildings Up North, you've probably noticed what's happened to RAM lately.  The prices are sky high compared to what they were just a little while ago.  From what I've read, AI companies have struck some kind of deal with RAM manufacturers and are sucking up all the available inventory for their AI overlording, leaving the rest of us to scramble and pay exorbitant prices.  Supposedly, there is some concern within the major PC manufacturers that they're not going to have enough to build their computers with, which is only going to raise their prices.  Can't wait for that. 

Unfortunately, I don't think producing RAM chips is an easy entry-to-market thing and thus it's not like other entrepreneurial people can just jump in and fill the void.  My hope is that the major computer manufacturers like Dell, HP, I guess Apple, etc. are big enough to be able to exert some kind of pressure on the companies who supply their memory sticks.  It's hard to believe they have no recourse other than to just get railroaded while suppliers sign deals with AI outfits and leave them hanging in the wind. 

I just got my new laptop a few months ago, 16gb RAM, I think, and I was gonna kick it up to 32....but then I looked at prices, picked my jaw up off the floor, read about what's happening, and said "nah, I'm good." 

Supply has dropped considerably, so it's not like the demand is able to choose from an abundance of supply.  If that were the case then sure, prices would drop.

But in effect it looks like it has become a premium niche market. 

While soundbar solutions on the other hand, are abundant and cheap, relatively speaking.  I suppose I might ultimately have to go that route, but it can't meet one of my criteria-- the RCA monitor line outputs to drive my outside speaker system.

Which means I'd have to start searching for another solution for that, some sort of whole house sound solution like SONOS maybe, and the price tag just goes up and up at that point.

All that said, I'm surprised there aren't good options for powering passive subs. 

Have you considered going full component? Split the receiver and the amplifier functionality and make them discrete pieces instead? 

I agree with you. It's not a supply/demand thing in the sense of undifferentiated "widgets".

It's that the market mix has changed to the point where people who used to buy "stereos" don't buy them any more, they buy soundbars. And they stream music that is "lo fi" compared to higher quality sources, so they don't even use music sources that have high enough bitrate to matter.

So... The people who really care about it are now niche buyers, with exacting needs and perhaps less price sensitivity than the average "I need a soundbar" guy. So supply shrinks to meet demand, and prices go up because it's servicing audiophiles. Instead of a bifurcated market. There was always a high-end that served audiophiles. But there was also a mid-range that bridged the gap between people who cared about quality and people who wanted a small and reasonable jump up from soundbar-level quality.

I think what you're saying is that the midrange got hollowed out, and because you're too elite for the low-end, now you've been pushed up into audiophile pricing. I get it

Absolutely this, said much better than I managed.  Maybe you should get an MBA...

All that said, I'm surprised there aren't good options for powering passive subs.

Have you considered going full component? Split the receiver and the amplifier functionality and make them discrete pieces instead?

Hmm, it's a thought.

I'm not sure there's even a solution out there that will do it, though.  And if there is, I can only imagine it's going to be even more expensive.  If A/V receiver amplifiers have trended toward audiophile status, then you don't even want to know what's happened to discrete amplifiers.  Once the neckbearded vinyl-hoarding fiends showed up in that market, everything went crazy. 

But I guess it's worth looking into. What I'm not sure of are two things:

1) Is there a discrete receiver that has the HDMI capability?  Seems like this has traditionally been the standard domain of the integrated receiver/amp marketplace, and I don't know if anyone ever bothered to service it with discrete components?

I know there are discrete receivers designed to serve primarily audiophile requirements, sych devices have existed for at least 70 years and still continue to do so.  But I don't know if these ever really extended into the A/V market.

2) Are there discrete amplifiers that are designed to drive 5.1 functionality, with or without a passive sub?  For the most part, the discrete amps I've seen lately are all stereo 2-channel drivers designed to service the HiFi vinyl neckbeards.

The truth is I need very little functionality out of the receiver portion itself.  I don't need AM/FM, I don't need phono inputs or tape inputs or any other stereo inputs.  All I absolutely need is 1 HDMI input for the BluRay, and 1 HDMI-ARC port for A/V output to the TV and return audio from the TV.  An extra HDMI for a gaming console or something might be nice, but not really necessary since the kids have an entire play room upstairs with a big TV and all of their gaming consoles hooked up to it.

I'm not sure there's even a solution out there that will do it, though.  And if there is, I can only imagine it's going to be even more expensive.  If A/V receiver amplifiers have trended toward audiophile status, then you don't even want to know what's happened to discrete amplifiers.  Once the neckbearded vinyl-hoarding fiends showed up in that market, everything went crazy. 

Yeah, I'm not saying it's cheap. But you're successful. Live a little 

1) Is there a discrete receiver that has the HDMI capability?  Seems like this has traditionally been the standard domain of the integrated receiver/amp marketplace, and I don't know if anyone ever bothered to service it with discrete components?

I know there are discrete receivers designed to serve primarily audiophile requirements, sych devices have existed for at least 70 years and still continue to do so.  But I don't know if these ever really extended into the A/V market.

Yeah... I just googled and you need to look for the word "pre-amplifier processor" or apparently pre-pro. 

Here's one. Overkill for you though, I'm sure... https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/home-theater-processors/MX200

2) Are there discrete amplifiers that are designed to drive 5.1 functionality, with or without a passive sub?  For the most part, the discrete amps I've seen lately are all stereo 2-channel drivers designed to service the HiFi vinyl neckbeards.

This is for 7 channel but could do it: https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/amplifiers/MI347

Although that would require a dedicated second amp for the sub if you wanted to stay passive... Looks like it's built only for the front 3 and up to 4 surrounds. The MX200 above does have discrete subwoofer outputs if you wanted to get a powered sub though. 

But if you read the prognostication, most analysts are saying that they don't see this meaningfully getting better until 2027-28...

Just so long as it does get better.  I can easily hold off til then.  Honestly, I don't really need 32gb of RAM.  I just wanted it.  

I had fancy aspirations of doing my own DS projects as a hobby to try and stay sharp, you know....not forget everything I learned in school because my job doesn't have much of anything to do with that.  More RAM comes in handy for tinkering with neural networks, but......all I really use my computer for is to come on here and check bookface every now and then.  

I'm in kind of a limbo between hardcore audiophiles where almost nothing pleases them, and the people who don't notice much of a difference with anything.  When .mp3's first started becoming popular, I noticed right away that the lower bit rates sounded terrible, though not everybody heard it.  OTOH, going up the ladder to the next standard bit rate or two sounded fine to me, while I know a small handful of people that still hated that and could still tell a difference.  I always thought my ear was pretty discriminant, but it turns out it must not be as discriminant as some.  

I always liked surround sound systems for movies and tv, though I never bought any.  I did not like the way they sounded with music, which has often been a prominent part of my living room entertainment center use.  Soundbars were a simpler alternative to that, but with the same problem for me.  If I didn't ever listen to music in my living room, I don't think I would mind those.  

My solution was to incorporate some nice studio reference monitors, the same kind we typically use in recording studios for playback.  They sound great for music, to me.  They aren't the best, imo, for tv and movies.  They're really built to play back musical tracks at a flat EQ, which I suspect is a very different thing than what soundbars and surround sound systems are designed to do.  

What powers the typical reference monitors in a studio and my tv are different things, of course, but, I find the music to be very, very enjoyable.  YMMV.  I think Spotify streamed on good monitors sounds very good.  Some people can't stand music compressed that much and can hear the difference between that and a CD.  I can't.  I can measure the difference in data on a CD .wav track and an .mp3 at standard bit rates and know that compression is real.  But I can't hear it like some people can until the compression gets down to a certain level.  I guess I'm glad about that, because being happy with my home sound system is probably an easier fix for me.  

Actually, I've probably never listened to CDs on my good reference monitors.  By the time I got to where I could afford to do such things, I was already using mp3 formats and not using CD players through that set-up.  My DVD player can play CDs, I should get some out and listen to them, because I honestly don't think I've ever done that.  Maybe I could tell a difference after all.

But, I tend to think in binary terms--"good" or "not acceptable"--vs. a likert scale.  While I may be able to tell the difference, I may not care much as long as my sensibilities bin it in the "good" category.  Which could be another reason I don't notice the difference, even if I ever did perceive it, maybe subconsciously.  

Might be a fun little experiment to test later.