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Topic: Phil Steele's Top 25

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #154 on: July 21, 2023, 05:26:06 PM »
It's the uncertainty that's the problem.  Playing, or not playing, a game, with only a few weeks' notice, doesn't give the various venues, hotels, and other needed support infrastructure, enough time to prepare and respond.  Especially considering that some or all of these games will be played around the holidays.

An 80,000-100,000 seat venue can't just line up all of the necessary employee resources for an event, from parking to concessions to security to administrative staff, and then a week before, say "sorry just kidding, go home, no pay."

That's actually a particularly asinine idea.


A +1 as needed would be mid-late January and it's always treated as if it's going to be played.
Hotel cancelations, food stuffs, parking attendants, etc would know 2 weeks out if it's cancelled.
I don't see the problem.  Maybe there's a 25% payout to everyone for the trouble, which is factored into the financials.  But it's completely doable.  
The years in which it's not needed simply means everyone has more time on their hands.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #155 on: July 21, 2023, 05:28:52 PM »
It's the uncertainty that's the problem.  Playing, or not playing, a game, with only a few weeks' notice, doesn't give the various venues, hotels, and other needed support infrastructure, enough time to prepare and respond.  Especially considering that some or all of these games will be played around the holidays.

An 80,000-100,000 seat venue can't just line up all of the necessary employee resources for an event, from parking to concessions to security to administrative staff, and then a week before, say "sorry just kidding, go home, no pay."

That's actually a particularly asinine idea.
Exactly right. It's a logistical nightmare to have that many resources built into a "maybe". 

"Amateurs talk strategy and professionals talk logistics." - US Army General Omar Bradley

Cincydawg

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #157 on: July 21, 2023, 11:09:07 PM »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

847badgerfan

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #158 on: July 22, 2023, 09:37:57 AM »
It's the uncertainty that's the problem.  Playing, or not playing, a game, with only a few weeks' notice, doesn't give the various venues, hotels, and other needed support infrastructure, enough time to prepare and respond.  Especially considering that some or all of these games will be played around the holidays.

An 80,000-100,000 seat venue can't just line up all of the necessary employee resources for an event, from parking to concessions to security to administrative staff, and then a week before, say "sorry just kidding, go home, no pay."

That's actually a particularly asinine idea.


This.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

FearlessF

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #159 on: July 22, 2023, 03:34:07 PM »
UNL would be OK with it or OK with telling them there's going to be an event in 5 days
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rolltidefan

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #160 on: July 24, 2023, 04:52:27 PM »
My concern isn't so much the idea of an "unworthy" champion for several reasons:
  • In a 12-team playoff the champion will have won three or four games against high-end opposition.  Prior to a few years ago doing that in an entire season was somewhat rare.  The winner will be "worthy" once they've completed that gauntlet. 
  • I don't think it is going to happen anyway.  Expanding the playoff to two and then four has already REDUCED the chances of a weakling like BYU winning the NC and expanding it to 12 will just further reduce those chances. 
  • I'm not sure how much I care anyway. 

My issue is that it degrades the importance of regular season games and I think that ultimately might end up killing the golden goose.  With no playoff, a two-team playoff, or a 4-team playoff there are 1-loss teams that miss the NC.  As an Ohio State fan I know this well because it happened to my team in 2015 (MSU) and 2018 (Purdue).  A second loss has ended the NC hope of EVERY team that has ever had a second loss except LSU in 2007. 


I care a LOT about my teams' games, even the random mid-season games because I've seen losses in random mid-season games derail potential NC teams.  I also care about YOUR teams' random mid-season games because they matter to my team in terms of spots available.  Ie, if Bama beats either Tennessee (lost by 3) or LSU (lost by 1) last year, my team misses the playoff.  Thus, it gives us a motivation to watch each others' teams' games. 

Once we expand to 12 and give guaranteed berths to the league champions, I don't think that fans like you and I will be counting spots anymore because there are too many moving parts and too many games that are effectively a wash.  Ie, Ohio State/Michigan is a wash if they are both in regardless or if they have the same record.  Same for Bama/Auburn so you no longer have a reason to care about THE GAME and I no longer have a reason to care about the Iron Bowl. 

I think that once the 12-team playoff is force, I'll care less about non-tOSU games and just figure that if Ohio State is at least decent (9-3), they'll probably get in.  I'll also care less about individual tOSU games because if they lose a random mid-season game to Purdue or MSU there will no longer be any chance of that individual loss knocking them out. 
1 - we're not talking about a worthy title winner, we're taking about worthy playoff participants. anyone that wins the playoff will have won it fair, i'm sure. but getting that chance should be difficult.
2 - i'm not talking about a weak but good record BYU. i'm talking about a 6-6/7-5 ga tech or ole miss sec title winner. it hasn't happened yet, but it's come eerily close  a few times. and with some (most/all?) conferences moving to a non-division format, this become almost moot. but i don't want a lucked up conference winner getting in.

agree fully on degrading reg season.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #161 on: July 24, 2023, 05:07:05 PM »
2 - i'm not talking about a weak but good record BYU. i'm talking about a 6-6/7-5 ga tech or ole miss sec title winner. it hasn't happened yet, but it's come eerily close  a few times. and with some (most/all?) conferences moving to a non-division format, this become almost moot. but i don't want a lucked up conference winner getting in.
I actually think a lucked up conference championship winner getting in is a good thing. If anything, the CFP as it stands today devalues conference championships.

Because you can win your conference at say 10-3 and you get what? A meaningless bowl game. While a team that perhaps didn't even make it to their conference championship and finished at 11-1 might get into the CFP, and DEFINITELY will get into the 12-team playoff.

Or worse---you get into your conference championship at 9-3. The other division team gets in at 12-0. You win in a nailbiter to get to 10-3 and then you watch as you're excluded from the CFP while the 12-1 team that you just beat gets included.

I think the first goal of any team is winning your conference. This means you'll get a real reward for doing it. 

----------

For me, I think the advantage of a 12-team playoff is that you have enough teams that you're really not leaving anyone "worthy" out. The cost of that is the chance that your inclusion criteria means that you might have an "unworthy" team in the playoff. But if that team is truly unworthy, they'll lose over the course of four games. And if they win 4 straight games against that level of competition, maybe they're more worthy than you thought?

utee94

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #162 on: July 24, 2023, 05:31:41 PM »
A +1 as needed would be mid-late January and it's always treated as if it's going to be played.
Hotel cancelations, food stuffs, parking attendants, etc would know 2 weeks out if it's cancelled.
I don't see the problem.  Maybe there's a 25% payout to everyone for the trouble, which is factored into the financials.  But it's completely doable. 
The years in which it's not needed simply means everyone has more time on their hands.
That'sNotHowAnyOfThisWorks.jpg

bayareabadger

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #163 on: July 24, 2023, 07:38:37 PM »
The problem with the computer rankings had nothing to do with the model and whether it needs to be "tweaked".

The problem with the computer rankings was that it was an objective model, and every time it differed from the subjective human "eye test", we assumed that meant the computers must be wrong.

If the computers always basically agreed with the flawed and subjective gray matter of fleshy "experts", then we would accept them. When they didn't, we blamed the computers, not the "experts".
Also worth nothing, there’s often no consensus right answer. So someone was always gonna be mad, thus, a less fleshy system to resolve things.

bayareabadger

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #164 on: July 24, 2023, 07:45:50 PM »
It's the uncertainty that's the problem.  Playing, or not playing, a game, with only a few weeks' notice, doesn't give the various venues, hotels, and other needed support infrastructure, enough time to prepare and respond.  Especially considering that some or all of these games will be played around the holidays.

An 80,000-100,000 seat venue can't just line up all of the necessary employee resources for an event, from parking to concessions to security to administrative staff, and then a week before, say "sorry just kidding, go home, no pay."

That's actually a particularly asinine idea.


I don’t care for the “+1” because when push comes to shove, we’ll just change what we need to argue about to if we need it this year.

But it feels like the NFL does rally all that stuff and then drop it a week later, right? The home element is a bit different, but not impossible.

MaximumSam

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #165 on: July 24, 2023, 07:47:22 PM »
Exactly right. It's a logistical nightmare to have that many resources built into a "maybe".

"Amateurs talk strategy and professionals talk logistics." - US Army General Omar Bradley

Somehow every professional league can accomplish this task but colleges can't? Must not be taking our best and brightest.

FearlessF

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #166 on: July 24, 2023, 10:46:25 PM »
the NFL doesn't tweak their system every other season to try to "fix" it
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #167 on: July 24, 2023, 11:01:15 PM »
That'sNotHowAnyOfThisWorks.jpg

Like would there be any shortage of money? 
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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