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Topic: OT - Weird History

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FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2898 on: January 27, 2024, 08:54:59 AM »
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Siege of Leningrad Is Lifted (1944)
During WWII, German and Finnish forces invaded the Soviet Union and encircled the city of Leningrad—now St. Petersburg—blocking supply lines for 872 days. Sparse food and fuel supplies delivered by barge and sled kept the city's arms factories operating and its 2 million inhabitants barely alive, while 1 million children and sick and elderly people were evacuated. Still, hundreds of thousands died of starvation, disease, and shelling from German artillery.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2899 on: January 27, 2024, 09:21:37 AM »
"In the vibrant streets of Manhattan in 1892, there were a group of hot potato vendors who sold a unique variety of potatoes known as "mickeys." These mickeys were not your ordinary potatoes; they had a distinct taste and texture that set them apart from all others.

The hot potato vendors would set up their carts in strategic locations throughout the city, attracting customers with the tantalizing aroma of their freshly cooked mickeys. The mickeys were named after their creator, Mickey, a skilled potato farmer who had perfected the art of growing and cooking these potatoes.

Mickey's mickeys were renowned for their crispy exterior and fluffy interior. People would line up eagerly, waiting for their turn to savor the deliciousness of these potatoes. The vendors would carefully slice the mickeys into thin strips and fry them to perfection, ensuring that each customer received a piping hot batch of crispy goodness.

The mickeys quickly gained popularity among both locals and tourists. The vendors would often share stories about the origins of these unique potatoes, adding to the intrigue and allure. People would come from all corners of the city to taste the mickeys, and the hot potato vendors became an integral part of the bustling street culture of Manhattan.

The hot potato vendors would offer a variety of toppings and seasonings to accompany the mickeys. Some customers preferred them plain, allowing the natural flavors of the potato to shine through. Others would opt for toppings like melted cheese, sour cream, or even a sprinkle of bacon bits, adding an extra layer of indulgence to their potato experience.

As the mickeys gained popularity, the hot potato vendors became local celebrities. Their carts became gathering spots for friends and colleagues, where they would enjoy a quick and satisfying meal while engaging in lively conversations. The vendors would often share stories and jokes, creating a warm and welcoming atmosphere for all who visited.

The hot potato vendors and their mickeys became an integral part of the cultural fabric of Manhattan in 1892. Their presence added a touch of culinary delight to the bustling streets, creating a sense of community and shared enjoyment. The legacy of the hot potato vendors and their mickeys lives on, reminding us of the simple pleasures that can be found in a humble hot potato."


"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2900 on: January 27, 2024, 09:36:52 AM »
I've visited several American military cemeteries in France and it's astonishing how many deaths occured in 1919.  The flu killed more than the war.  (It probably started in Kansas, maybe.)  I know when COVID first hit some worried it would be akin to 1919.  

MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2901 on: January 27, 2024, 10:25:18 AM »
How did a world wide epidemic start in wide open wind swept Kansas? I can see populations centers on the coasts where ships arrive/depart frequently from all over but the middle of Dorothy's sparcely populated paradise?
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2902 on: January 27, 2024, 10:33:49 AM »
why ask why?
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2903 on: January 27, 2024, 10:39:53 AM »
How did a world wide epidemic start in wide open wind swept Kansas? I can see populations centers on the coasts where ships arrive/depart frequently from all over but the middle of Dorothy's sparcely populated paradise?
Military training camps.


Purple Death: The Great Flu of 1918 - PAHO/WHO | Pan American Health Organization


Quote
No matter what they called it, the virus attacked everyone similarly. It started like any other influenza case, with a sore throat, chills and fever. Then came the deadly twist: the virus ravaged its victim's lungs.
Despite its name, researchers believe the Spanish flu most likely originated in the United States. One of the first recorded cases was on March 11, 1918, at Fort Riley in Kansas. Overcrowding and unsanitary conditions created a fertile breeding ground for the virus. Within one week, 522 men had been admitted to the camp hospital suffering from the same severe influenza. Soon after, the army reported similar outbreaks in Virginia, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama and California. Navy ships docked at East Coast ports also reported outbreaks of severe influenza and pneumonia among their crews. The flu seemed to target military personnel and not civilians, so the virus was largely overshadowed by hotter current affairs such as Prohibition, the suffragette movement and the bloody battles in Europe.
By May 1918, influenza began to subside in the United States. But the ordeal was by no means over. Soldiers at Fort Riley, now ready for battle, incubated the virus during their long, cramped voyage to France. Once they hit French shores, the virus exploded, striking the Allied forces and Central Powers with equal force. The Americans fell ill with "three-day fever" or "purple death." The French caught "purulent bronchitis." The Italians suffered "sand fly fever." German hospitals filled with victims of Blitzkatarrh or "Flanders fever."

No matter what they called it, the virus attacked everyone similarly. It started like any other influenza case, with a sore throat, chills and fever. Then came the deadly twist: the virus ravaged its victim's lungs. Sometimes within hours, patients succumbed to complete respiratory failure. Autopsies showed hard, red lungs drenched in fluid. A microscopic look at diseased lung tissue revealed that the alveoli, the lungs' normally air-filled cells, were so full of fluid that victims literally drowned. The slow suffocation began when patients presented with a unique symptom: mahogany spots over their cheekbones. Within hours these patients turned a bluish-black hue indicative of cyanosis, or lack of oxygen. When triaging scores of new patients, nurses often looked at the patients' feet first. Those with black feet were considered beyond help and were carted off to die.



Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2904 on: January 27, 2024, 10:46:08 AM »
So, in an alternate history, imagine that the German forces in 1914 continued their sweep west of Paris meeting little resistance beyond supply issues.  Paris gets surrounded, much as in 1871, and holds out a bit, and then the French ask for terms.  The Germans probably take a bit more land in the east near Lorraine, African colonies, and ask for "reparations".  The Brits board ships and go home.  Belgium becomes a German proxy state.  Whilhelm II is hailed a hero and remains Kaiser in charge of the dominant state in Europe and probably the world.

No Hitler, no WW 2, no Holocaust.  Germany probably then takes swathes of land from the Poles and Russians for "lebensraum" and Tsar Nicholas teeters in power, but Lenin of course remains in prison.  Austria-Hungary remains as an empire of sorts, maybe grabs some land from Italy.    The Serbian issue is dealt with rather harshly.

Turkey remains the Ottoman Empire, also teetering and weakened, but never engage in the war.  Perhaps both Russia and the Ottomans face revolts and perhaps change governments, it's likely perhaps.

MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2905 on: January 27, 2024, 10:59:43 AM »
The census bureau numbers had 104 million people living in the USA in 1917. Just because it wasn't recorded, Europe had many more packed in per square mile and in close proximity.While that report may be accurate for the USA how could we possibly know the information from all the many various countries overseas? And when they were 1st afflicted? No one could possibly know how everyone who died of a virus or which one was directly responsible
« Last Edit: January 27, 2024, 12:15:57 PM by MrNubbz »
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2906 on: January 27, 2024, 12:31:51 PM »
The virus had very common symptoms, unlike COVID.  The 50 million figure is of course a rough estimate.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2907 on: January 27, 2024, 12:49:57 PM »
The virus had very common symptoms, unlike COVID.  The 50 million figure is of course a rough estimate.
Honestly I think a lot of it is that medical care in general is, well, a century ahead of where it was then. I don't know what the COVID death toll would have been if it happened in 1918, but I feel confident it would be multiples if not necessarily an order of magnitude higher. 

That said, one key difference as I understand is that the Spanish Flu really hit the younger healthier crowd by triggering their healthy and strong immune systems to overreact. That's a confounding factor that I don't know how to account for. 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2908 on: January 27, 2024, 03:19:00 PM »
Honestly I think a lot of it is that medical care in general is, well, a century ahead of where it was then. I don't know what the COVID death toll would have been if it happened in 1918, but I feel confident it would be multiples if not necessarily an order of magnitude higher.

That said, one key difference as I understand is that the Spanish Flu really hit the younger healthier crowd by triggering their healthy and strong immune systems to overreact. That's a confounding factor that I don't know how to account for.
I read somewhere a theory is that there had been a similar but less severe flu sometime in the early 1890's.

It has been touched on in the discussion in this thread but what @betarhoalphadelta and I are talking about here is an oddity about the Spanish Flu. Typically a Flu is most likely to be fatal among the elderly and among infants. In the case of the Spanish Flu fatalities were very high among military aged young adults at it wasn't just because they were in the army and got it more. It had a higher fatality rate per infection among young adults as well. This is extremely unusual because 20-somethings are typically at peak health so they typically have the lowest fatalities.

The theory of a similar Flu in the early 1890's would provide an explanation because everyone over about 30 in 1918 would have been alive in the early 1890's and thus likely to have been exposed to and to have developed antibodies for the earlier Flu while the military aged 20-somethings had been born AFTER the early 1890's so they would not have been exposed to the earlier Flu and thus they would have lacked those antibodies.

medinabuckeye1

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FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2910 on: January 27, 2024, 03:27:17 PM »
yes, there are accounts of UNL shutting down because the student body was affected
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MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2911 on: January 27, 2024, 03:47:40 PM »
The theory of a similar Flu in the early 1890's would provide an explanation because everyone over about 30 in 1918 would have been alive in the early 1890's and thus likely to have been exposed to and to have developed antibodies for the earlier Flu while the military aged 20-somethings had been born AFTER the early 1890's so they would not have been exposed to the earlier Flu and thus they would have lacked those antibodies.
Makes sense exposed earlier and gradually built up resistance,Spock would approve. Back to my earlier point Kansas may have been the jumping off point in this country for the virus because of said barracks. I don't think it hatched here though,me thinks packed ships or trenches as the euros were mixing it up 3 yrs prior to the Dough Boys arriving.
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

 

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