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Topic: OT - Weird History

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2296 on: August 07, 2023, 03:10:03 PM »
It was a close run thing.  The change in commander at the top had some impact I think.  He was willing to commit the South Dakota and Washington in the waters around Savo Island, but that was a month later.

Henderson Field got repaired fairly quickly, and they built another air strip for fighters nearby that the Japanese didn't know about for a while.

I would hate to have been under the fire of 14" naval guns.
In addition to that, ultimately the Japanese were going to lose the war no matter what happened at Henderson Field because eventually all those SoDaks, Iowas, Baltimores, Clevelands, Alaskas, Montanas, Essexes, etc were going to show up and flat overwhelm them.

That said, I do think that the concept of Japanese victory at Guadalcanal makes for an interesting hypothetical. Suppose that, as per above, right after Santa Cruz, the IJN sends their BB's and their remaining CV to the Southern Solomons. The USN has little with which to resist so Henderson Field is obliterated, the CAF is put out of business, and the Japanese are able to resupply Guadalcanal while the US is not.

The USMC is pushed into the Solomon Sea in what would have been a bloody battle. Then what?

My theory:
King/Halsey ended up being "right" because it worked out but the troops on Guadalcanal referred to the whole thing as "Operation Shoestring" because the US wasn't really ready for such a major undertaking and the troops were chronically undersupplied.

There is a credible argument that what King/Halsey did was foolhardy because the US didn't have to be overly aggressive. Time was on our side.

Militaries are bureaucracies. Bureaucracies tend to overcompensate for past mistakes and perceived past mistakes. If the USMC had been pushed into the Solomon Sea at Guadalcanal, it would have been seen as a catastrophe born of King/Halsey's unnecessary and reckless over aggression.

The result would likely have been for the Generals and Admirals in charge of the Pacific theater to more-or-less turn themselves into clones of Bernard Montgomery and wait until they had overwhelming superiority before attempting any offensive actions. The official "Germany First" policy would have been seen as support for this course of action.

At that point, US offensives in the Pacific would have been put on hold for probably a year and a half until the first wave of Essex Class Carriers (7 commissioned by end of 1943) along with the Independence Class Light Carriers (all 9 commissioned in 1943), Iowa Class Battleships (2 commissioned in 1943) were available.

Only then (roughly end of 1943, early 1944) could the USN be completely confident that they would not encounter a superior force of IJN ships.

That would set the entire timeline of the Pacific War back by 12-18 months so that when Germany's eventual defeat became undeniably obvious the Japanese still would have held most of their conquered possessions. Some kind of deal might have been possible at that point.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2023, 03:39:42 PM by medinabuckeye1 »

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2297 on: August 07, 2023, 03:49:45 PM »
As it was a close run thing anyway, and as you note, the Japanese "messed up", with some improvement on their part ...

They could have started on another airfield closer down the slot earlier also.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2298 on: August 07, 2023, 03:49:57 PM »

MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2299 on: August 07, 2023, 06:42:06 PM »
2660 Egptians were building pyramids while Wooly mammoths were still living


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf-xGKTszuE


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FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2300 on: August 07, 2023, 10:53:36 PM »
May be an image of 1 person and text
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2301 on: August 08, 2023, 07:17:49 AM »

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2302 on: August 08, 2023, 07:20:00 AM »

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2303 on: August 08, 2023, 09:15:08 AM »
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Collapse of Warsaw Radio Mast (1991)
Upon its completion in 1974, the Warsaw radio mast in Poland became the world's tallest structure. Standing 2,120 feet (646 m) tall, the tower was used for long-wave radio broadcasting. In 1991, the mast underwent repairs to exchange guy wires, the cables used to stabilize the tower. However, the mast bent and then snapped at approximately half its height. It was never rebuilt.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2304 on: August 08, 2023, 01:42:18 PM »

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2305 on: August 09, 2023, 09:12:22 AM »
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Sharon Tate Murdered by Manson "Family" (1969)
Tate, an American actress, was nominated for a Golden Globe award in 1968 for her performance in Valley of the Dolls. In 1969, Charles Manson, leader of a cult called the "Family," sent his followers to Tate's home with orders to "totally destroy everyone in [it], as gruesome as you can." Tate, 8 ½ months pregnant at the time, was murdered along with 5 friends. The "Family" committed several other murders before its members were caught and brought to trial in 1971.


Sharon Tate Actress Died August 1969 Editorial Stock Photo - Stock Image |  Shutterstock
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utee94

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2306 on: August 09, 2023, 09:14:30 AM »
That one is such a sad and weird story.

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2307 on: August 10, 2023, 09:53:30 AM »
A precursor to Hyperloop travel was tried in the 1870s in New York City. Beach Pneumatic Transit briefly allowed people to travel a short distance in Manhattan in underground, pneumatic passenger capsules.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2308 on: August 10, 2023, 09:55:55 AM »
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

"Son of Sam" Serial Killer Arrested (1977)
Between 1976 and 1977, New York City was terrorized by a serial killer—later identified as David Berkowitz—who called himself the "Son of Sam" in letters to police. After his arrest in August 1977, Berkowitz confessed to killing six people and wounding seven others in the course of eight shootings. Berkowitz later claimed that he was commanded to kill by a demon who possessed his neighbor's dog.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2309 on: August 10, 2023, 03:09:52 PM »
The D155W is the first amphibious bulldozer worldwide and was manufactured in 1971. A total of 36 machines were produced. There are still some restored units in operation around the world.

Komatsu and Asunaro Aoki Construction Co., Ltd. announced that the “Underwater Construction of the Future” will be presented at the Expo 2025 Osaka, Kansai, Japan.


May be an image of submarine, boat and text that says 'KOMATSU KOMATSU'
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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