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Topic: OT - Weird History
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Cincydawg · « **Reply #1778 on:** May 03, 2023, 12:52:18 PM »

It also rained pretty hard after the battle, and Lee held in place for a day before sneaking out. That allowed him to send on ambulances and slow moving wagons a day ahead of time. Meade was new to command and realize a bad error would be disastrous. He knew Lee would set traps and appear where least expected. (This is the 160th anniversary of Chancellorsville.) Imagine Meade had really gone after Lee with a divided wounded army and suddenly Lee turned on him and defeated him in detail.

I think the mistake made by Lee was on Day One not taking the heights, which however would have been dicey as well. His orders were equivocal. In my books, Stonewall Jackson is saved by a slave of all people and is present and takes the heights (with considerable casualties). Meade then falls back to a second very defensible line.

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #1779 on:** May 03, 2023, 01:29:25 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 12:52:18 PM

It also rained pretty hard after the battle, and Lee held in place for a day before sneaking out. That allowed him to send on ambulances and slow moving wagons a day ahead of time. Meade was new to command and realize a bad error would be disastrous. He knew Lee would set traps and appear where least expected. (This is the 160th anniversary of Chancellorsville.) Imagine Meade had really gone after Lee with a divided wounded army and suddenly Lee turned on him and defeated him in detail.

The bolded part, I think, is the best defense of Meade. Gettysburg was a great victory for the Union but would have been a catastrophic defeat if Meade had walked into a trap while pursuing.

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 12:52:18 PM

I think the mistake made by Lee was on Day One not taking the heights, which however would have been dicey as well. His orders were equivocal. In my books, Stonewall Jackson is saved by a slave of all people and is present and takes the heights (with considerable casualties). Meade then falls back to a second very defensible line.

Interesting concept, how can I get a copy?

It has, of course, long been theorized that if Stonewall Jackson had survived Chancellorsville, he would have more readily realized value of the heights and therefore understood Lee's famous (perhaps infamous) order to take them "if practicable" as meaning something closer to "if possible".

longhorn320 · « **Reply #1780 on:** May 03, 2023, 01:35:40 PM »

Lee charged into a well entrenched position across over a mile of open ground

Of course it was a huge mistake

as several of his generals suggested he should have gone to the right

Cincydawg · « **Reply #1781 on:** May 03, 2023, 01:41:27 PM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 03, 2023, 01:29:25 PM

It has, of course, long been theorized that if Stonewall Jackson had survived Chancellorsville, he would have more readily realized value of the heights and therefore understood Lee's famous (perhaps infamous) order to take them "if practicable" as meaning something closer to "if possible".

It's available on Amazon, or I will send you the books, there are four of them in the series. Book 2 is called "Rebel at War", I see Amazon has it on sale for $3.54 which is cheaper than I could mail it.

Book One is historical fiction and then it turns into alternative fiction for 2-4. Stonewall took a slave who had very good night vision on his reconnaisance when he was shot, and the slave heard the rifles cock and pulled Stonewall out of his saddle, and was shot himself. How's that for irony?

Cincydawg · « **Reply #1782 on:** May 03, 2023, 01:42:27 PM »

I got interested in what would happen if the South "won" the war, and my notions were they really would have lost relatively and had numerous problems. So did the North, the country split up again.

FearlessF · « **Reply #1783 on:** May 04, 2023, 09:27:33 AM »

THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Haymarket Riot (1886)
This violent confrontation between Chicago police and labor protesters, which dramatized the labor movement's struggle for recognition, began when a bomb was thrown into the police ranks at a gathering of radical unionists protesting police brutality against strikers. With seven officers dead and 60 wounded, the police opened fire on the crowd. Seven anarchist leaders were later sentenced to death.

FearlessF · « **Reply #1784 on:** May 05, 2023, 09:11:47 AM »

THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Kublai Khan Becomes Ruler of the Mongol Empire (1260)
The grandson of Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan was a Mongol emperor who founded China's Yuan Dynasty and became the first Yuan emperor in 1271. In 1279, he completed his grandfather's conquest of China by overthrowing the Sung dynasty. He promoted economic prosperity by rebuilding the Grand Canal, repairing public granaries, extending highways, and encouraging foreign commerce. His magnificent capital at Cambuluc—now Beijing—was visited by several Europeans

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #1785 on:** May 05, 2023, 04:17:54 PM »

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 03, 2023, 01:35:40 PM

Lee charged into a well entrenched position across over a mile of open ground

Of course it was a huge mistake

Tactically, you are inarguably correct. As stated above, strategically there is a credible basis for the decision.

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 03, 2023, 01:35:40 PM

as several of his generals suggested he should have gone to the right

Another alternative would have been to simply declare victory and go home. Even after Pickett's Charge the casualty figures for the Union and Confederate armies at Gettysburg are roughly equal. Since the attacking and unsuccessful Confederates MUST have had more losses than the defending and successful Union on the battle's final day, if Lee had simply chosen to leave, the Union would have had more casualties. That and the Confederate acquisition of supplies would have given credibility to the assertion of victory.

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #1786 on:** May 05, 2023, 04:27:31 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 01:42:27 PM

I got interested in what would happen if the South "won" the war, and my notions were they really would have lost relatively and had numerous problems. So did the North, the country split up again.

The Spanish-American War almost certainly wouldn't have occurred since the North was far from Spanish colonies and the South didn't have the industrial base nor the Naval tradition and infrastructure.
Where it gets interesting, I think is WWI. Do both stay neutral? Do both join? Do they join on the same or opposite sides?

longhorn320 · « **Reply #1787 on:** May 05, 2023, 04:31:54 PM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 05, 2023, 04:17:54 PM

Tactically, you are inarguably correct. As stated above, strategically there is a credible basis for the decision.

I disagree with this statement

Just look at what happened to Burnsides 6 divisions at Fredericksburg when they charged over open ground to a well fortified Confederate position

The result was mass slaughter

Lee should have learned from this cause his generals sure did

longhorn320 · « **Reply #1788 on:** May 05, 2023, 04:40:01 PM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 05, 2023, 04:17:54 PM

. Another alternative would have been to simply declare victory and go home. Even after Pickett's Charge the casualty figures for the Union and Confederate armies at Gettysburg are roughly equal. Since the attacking and unsuccessful Confederates MUST have had more losses than the defending and successful Union on the battle's final day, if Lee had simply chosen to leave, the Union would have had more casualties. That and the Confederate acquisition of supplies would have given credibility to the assertion of victory.

By all accounts Ive read that simply was not in the character of Lee

He smelled victory and was convinced the Union center would fold if pressed

again Lee could have achieved a much better outcome by outflanking the Union to the right

but we will never really know

FearlessF · « **Reply #1789 on:** May 05, 2023, 07:45:08 PM »

History Nebraska

May 5, 1955, this building survived an atomic bomb test blast 6,800 feet away from ground zero in Yucca Flats, Nevada.
Manufactured by the Behlen plant in Columbus, Nebraska, the metal shed withstood pressure loads of around 600 Ibs/sq foot.

May be an image of text that says 'Behlen ATOMIC TEST BUILDING N History NEBRASKA'

May be an image of text that says 'Behlen ATOMIC TEST BUILDING N History NEBRASKA'

FearlessF · « **Reply #1790 on:** May 06, 2023, 11:00:33 AM »

On May 6, 1882, President Chester Arthur signed a law that reshaped America. More than a century later, Congress formally apologized for it.

The Chinese Exclusion Act blocked Chinese workers from coming legally to the country, and blocked Chinese immigrants who were already living here from becoming US citizens. The Library of Congress calls it the “first significant restriction on free immigration in U.S. history.”

The law and other related measures were repealed in 1943. But its legacy is still being felt decades later.

Generations of families were separated and suffered under the restrictions, says Ted Gong, executive director of the 1882 Foundation, which aims to spread awareness of the act’s history and continuing significance.

“The Chinese Exclusion Act shaped the entire Chinese American society, even up into today,” Gong says.

And experts have argued the law’s impact lasted long beyond its time on the books.

“The justification for exclusion was that the Chinese were an ‘unassimilable’ race and therefore could never become Americans. … Its rationale – that Asians pose a racial danger to American society – has endured in our politics and culture to this day,” historian Mae Ngai said in a 2021 piece for The Atlantic.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/on-this-day-141-years-ago-a-new-law-began-reshaping-america-more-than-a-century-later-congress-apologized-for-it/ar-AA1aOG1y

FearlessF · « **Reply #1791 on:** May 07, 2023, 09:34:17 AM »

Today in history: May 7

In 1915, a German U-boat torpedoed and sank the British liner RMS Lusitania off the southern coast of Ireland, killing 1,198 people, including 128 Americans, out of the nearly 2,000 on board.

In 1939, Germany and Italy announced a military and political alliance known as the Rome-Berlin Axis.

In 1945, Germany signed an unconditional surrender at Allied headquarters in Rheims (rams), France, ending its role in World War II.

In 1954, the 55-day Battle of Dien Bien Phu in Vietnam ended with Vietnamese insurgents overrunning French forces.

In 1975, President Gerald R. Ford formally declared an end to the “Vietnam era.” In Ho Chi Minh City — formerly Saigon — the Viet Cong celebrated its takeover.

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Topic: OT - Weird History

Cincydawg

Re: OT - Weird History

medinabuckeye1

Re: OT - Weird History

longhorn320

Re: OT - Weird History

Cincydawg

Re: OT - Weird History

Cincydawg

Re: OT - Weird History

FearlessF

Re: OT - Weird History

FearlessF

Re: OT - Weird History

medinabuckeye1

Re: OT - Weird History

medinabuckeye1

Re: OT - Weird History

longhorn320

Re: OT - Weird History

longhorn320

Re: OT - Weird History

FearlessF

Re: OT - Weird History

FearlessF

Re: OT - Weird History

FearlessF

Re: OT - Weird History