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Topic: OT - Weird History

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Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #1512 on: February 05, 2023, 04:33:07 PM »

MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #1513 on: February 05, 2023, 05:21:09 PM »
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Hydrogen Bomb Lost in the Ocean (1958)
The Tybee Bomb is a 7,600-pound (3,500-kg) nuclear bomb containing 400 pounds (180 kg) of conventional high explosives and highly enriched uranium. During a simulated combat mission, the B-47 bomber carrying it collided with an F-86 fighter plane, and the bomb was jettisoned and lost. It is presumed to be somewhere in Wassaw Sound, off the shores of Georgia's Tybee Island, but recovery efforts have been unsuccessful.
Ya hello,Boss you're not gonna believe this shit
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Gigem

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #1514 on: February 05, 2023, 08:25:46 PM »
I've seen some folks claim the secession was not primarily about slavery.
I give you the words of my 7th grade history teacher, Mrs. Kincannon, who said "No matter what anybody else says, the civil war was not about slavery".  She was a great teacher, I really liked her.  I still remember that we closely followed the 1988 Presidential Election, Bush vs. Dukakis.  Seemed like a much more civilized time.  Before I really knew what the major differences were between Republicans and Democrats, I think I kinda liked Dukakis a little more than Bush, but they both seemed OK dudes to an 7th grader.  

In 8th grade, Mrs. Mitchell (whom I had a bit of a crush on!) said " No matter what anybody else tells you, the civil war was about slavery".  

They were both middle aged white women.  

I have since concluded that it's just complicated.  Because some people were in fact fighting for slavery, some people were fighting for other things, and I thinks some people just kind of joined the fracas not really knowing exactly what they were fighting for, other than assuming everybody else knew what they were fighting for. 

I've always thought there were plenty of Northerners and Southeners who would be amply content to let the other side do as they seemed fit, what really did the people in NYC really care about the people in Alabama?  

But here we are.  And slavery was just such a shameful act and time.  

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #1515 on: February 06, 2023, 06:20:56 AM »
The various Articles of Secession indicate slavery was a major cause.  The election of Lincoln was a major cause, obviously, and the main objection was his stance (or perceived stance) on slavery.  There were other issues that folks use to confuse.  I'm not talking about individual motivations to fight, that issue is more complex, but the core cause of secession was slavery.

The cause of the war itself gets more complex.  South Carolina seceded months before the war started.  Had Lincoln removed Federal troops from Fort Sumter, the Confederacy would likely have peacefully gone its way (sans NC and VA) and there would have been no war.

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #1516 on: February 06, 2023, 08:08:10 AM »
talk about a college football rivalry between the SEC and the Big Ten if that would have happened!
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #1517 on: February 06, 2023, 09:56:43 AM »
This from a YouTube history channel

One of my favorite "moments" of WW2 took place during the fierce battles around the Anzio Beach Perimeter. This is from General Ernst Harmon's (2nd Armored Div) biography. 

During a lull in the fighting, an American soldier had "liberated" some champagne and a black top hat from some local buildings and had proceeded to get roaring drunk. He got a bit turned around and his buddies watched as he drunkenly weaved his way towards the German line. They yelled, screamed and then silently waited for the inevitable shot or spray of machine gun bullets. They were amazed when he made it to the line and a German officer stepped forward, spun the man around and nudged him back towards his own line. There were cheers from both sides when he made it back.

  War is terrible but sometimes the opportunity for mercy and humanity, even humor, arise.
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847badgerfan

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #1518 on: February 06, 2023, 11:33:04 AM »
February 6, 1911. President Ronald Reagan is born.



Ronald Reagan’s legacy of patriotism and optimism is timeless and transparently apparent. Yet the "why" behind everything he did was never really stated by him outright. We know his faith guided him, but beyond that we long for him to have left a checklist of how to be Reagan-like.


As the Great Communicator though, in his written and spoken words, Ronald Reagan left many clues for us to find and decipher. Some seem as if they were given not only to America and the world but were almost as if he was also describing his own North Star. Like when he said, "Live simply, love generously, care deeply, speak kindly, leave the rest to God." A clear life motto - one he lived out both publicly and privately.  Good words for us to adopt and live out too. Simplicity. Love. Generosity. Caring. Kindness. Faith. When stated like that it doesn’t seem so elusive after all.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #1519 on: February 06, 2023, 12:11:29 PM »
The various Articles of Secession indicate slavery was a major cause.  The election of Lincoln was a major cause, obviously, and the main objection was his stance (or perceived stance) on slavery.  There were other issues that folks use to confuse.  I'm not talking about individual motivations to fight, that issue is more complex, but the core cause of secession was slavery.

The cause of the war itself gets more complex.  South Carolina seceded months before the war started.  Had Lincoln removed Federal troops from Fort Sumter, the Confederacy would likely have peacefully gone its way (sans NC and VA) and there would have been no war.
Your comment that individual motivations to fight are "more complex" is very true and really quite an understatement.  

In the antebellum South only a fairly small percentage of whites actually owned slaves.  The actual percentage is the subject of some debate but the absolute highest expression of it that I have seen comes from a pro-reparations activist who claims that almost one-third of southern families owned slaves.  Even using that extraordinarily high figure, still more than two-thirds of southern families did NOT own slaves so it stands to reason that at least around two-thirds of Confederate Soldiers had no direct personal benefit from the institution of Slavery.  

In the North the situation was quite convoluted.  A lot of poorer whites, particularly recent immigrants were at best lukewarm to the concept of abolition due to fear of wage competition from freed slaves.  This contributed to anti-war sentiment in the north that got so bad as to require Union Troops to be rushed from their win at the Battle of Gettysburg not South in pursuit of Lee but Northeast to NYC to put down violent anti-draft riots.  

In my own ancestry (AFAIK all of my ancestors were in North America before the Civil War) I have some ancestors who appear to have been drafted and fought rather begrudgingly for the Union possibly fighting to "preserve the Union" and others who joined up of their own free will and expressly for the purpose of freeing the slaves.  

My 2-great grandfather (Mother's, Mother's, Father's Father) was born to Quaker parents and raised a Quaker.  Quakers opposed both slavery and war but my 2-great Grandfather Joshua and his brother Caleb felt that "opposing slavery" as an intellectual pursuit but sitting idly by while hundreds of thousands of your countrymen actually fought to end it was hypocritical so they joined up.   My three-great uncle Caleb was killed in a small and previously little-known Pennsylvania Village called Gettysburg on July 3, 1863.  His brother Joshua served for the entire war from nearly the beginning until the final surrender.  He was wounded twice but survived the war and went on to have a large family with my great-grandfather as one of his sons.  I have a picture of my Grandmother (born 1909) sitting on his knee in about 1919.  

My ancestors Joshua and Caleb were unusual but not altogether unique.  They joined up explicitly to end slavery.  Most Northerners fought either because they didn't have a choice or to "preserve the union".  In fact, Lincoln was not elected on a platform of "ending slavery".  His platform was to stop the spread (not allow it in new territories) and enforce the already existing prohibition on the importation of additional slaves.  

Then there is the Emancipation Proclamation:
The Holy Roman Empire was famously neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire.  Similarly, the Emancipation Proclamation functionally did not free a single slave.  Lincoln worded it carefully because there were still some slaves within Union States and, in any case, the President's Constitutional authority to unilaterally free such  persons was dubious at best.  Lincoln avoided those issues by proclaiming the freedom of slaves in areas "then in rebellion".  That made it a military action under his authority as "Commander in Chief" which had a much stronger Constitutional basis than a domestic Presidential edict.  

Additionally, the Emancipation Proclamation was not issued for the purpose of freeing slaves, it was issued for the purpose of keeping France and Great Britain out of the war.  The developing industrial North was an economic competitor to European industry while the agrarian South was an economic supplier of raw materials to and purchaser of industrial goods from European Industry.  The European powers were in a bit of a pickle because their economic interests leaned strongly toward the South but Slavery was extremely unpopular in Europe so their emotional interests were with the North.  The purpose of the Emancipation Proclamation was to make the abolition of slavery an explicit war aim of the North which would effectively make it impossible for either Britain or France to join the war on the (now) explicitly pro-slavery side.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #1520 on: February 06, 2023, 12:15:47 PM »
I've always thought there were plenty of Northerners and Southeners who would be amply content to let the other side do as they seemed fit, what really did the people in NYC really care about the people in Alabama? 

But here we are.  And slavery was just such a shameful act and time. 
I don't know if you did this on purpose but it is interesting that you used NYC as your example. NYC itself was very much anti-war territory. Union troops had to be sent there from Gettysburg to put down violent anti-draft riots.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #1521 on: February 06, 2023, 12:17:55 PM »
Slavery and Lincoln's election --> secession.


Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #1522 on: February 06, 2023, 01:40:56 PM »


1919. 

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #1523 on: February 07, 2023, 08:54:16 AM »

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #1524 on: February 07, 2023, 10:08:09 AM »

MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #1525 on: February 07, 2023, 12:06:14 PM »

Got rid of my wood boat way too much maintenance,specially refinishing/shellacing the ribs/joists inside
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