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Topic: OT - Weird History

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FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #728 on: June 13, 2022, 08:02:38 AM »
The English words “boonies” and “boondocks” is actually based on the Filipino/Tagalog word for “mountain,” bundok. The word entered the North American vernacular in the 1940s, probably brought back by soldiers stationed in the Philippines during World War II.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #730 on: June 13, 2022, 03:03:19 PM »
This day in history 323.B.C.: Alexander the Great dies
Alexander the Great, the young Macedonian military genius who forged an empire stretching from the eastern Mediterranean to India, dies in Babylon, in present-day Iraq, at the age of 33.
Born in Macedonia to King Phillip II and Queen Olympias, Alexander received a classical education from famed philosopher Aristotle and a military education from his father. At the age of 16, Alexander led his first troops into combat and two years later commanded a large part of his father’s army that won the Battle of Chaeronea and brought Greece under Macedonian rule. In 336 B.C., Phillip II was assassinated, and Alexander ascended to the throne.
Two years later, the young king led a large army into Asia Minor to carry out his father’s plans for conquering Persia. Consistently outnumbered in his battles against superior Persian forces, Alexander displayed an unprecedented understanding of strategic military planning and tactical maneuvers. He never lost a single battle, and by 330 B.C. all of Persia and Asia Minor was under his sway.
Although Alexander controlled the largest empire in the history of the world, he launched a new eastern campaign soon after his return from Persia. By 327 B.C., he had conquered Afghanistan, Central Asia, and northern India. In the next year, his army, exhausted after eight years of fighting, refused to go farther, and Alexander led them on a difficult journey home through the inhospitable Makran Desert.


FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #731 on: June 15, 2022, 11:06:48 PM »
In 1901, Connecticut set the first speed limit in the United States at12 mph.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #732 on: June 16, 2022, 12:49:55 PM »
I have a theory this was a prime contributor to our war with Japan in 1941.

109 years ago today in 1913, American soldiers crush the last resistance of the Islamic Moros in the Philippines during the Battle of Bud Bagsak.
In 1898 the United States found itself in a war with the old colonial power Spain. The U.S. spent $250 million and 3,000 lives (90% from infectious diseases) to acquire the islands of Cuba, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines. Described as “A Splendid Little War” by its proponents, the conflict against Spain lasted just 3 months, 3 weeks and 2 days. However Americans would soon learn a tough imperial lesson over the next decade with their occupation of the Philippines.
While Spain was formally handing over the islands to the United States military, the Filipino people expected their sovereignty and ratified a Declaration of Independence that the U.S. did not acknowledge. Tensions boiled over into an armed insurrection where both sides went back and forth committing atrocities. As the rebellion became more violent, a large anti-imperialism movement arose in the United States that denounced the war that lasted for roughly three years. Once the main Filipino population was brought to heel in a similar fashion the Americans made their native Indians submit, they focused their attention to the southern islands of the Philippines on the Moro people, a large Islamic minority.
In the 13th century, Muslim missionaries from the Persian Gulf arrived to this portion of the Philippines and converted the natives to Islam and established Sultanates across the isles. The Moros were a tribal people broken apart into smaller factions led by a leader called a Datu, and the Datus would be under the control of a Sultan. For centuries the Moros were known as brutal raiders and pirates towards their Christian and Pagan neighbors. When the Spanish had taken control of the Philippines in the 1500’s, for over three hundred years they fought the Moros but could not bring them under control. The Moros were primarily melee fighters using double edged blades called a kris, kalise, or barong. They were also expert guerrilla fighters who engaged in unsuspecting suicidal jihad attacks that the Spanish called “Juramentados.”
With the arrival of the United States military into Moroland, it didn’t take long for American soldiers to be killed by Moro guerrillas. Starting from 1903 and lasting all the way until 1913, the United States made slow progress bringing Moro territory under their control through punitive expeditions against rebellious Datus who took shelter in their mountaintop fortresses called cottas. The United States found the Moro customs repulsive and over time forced them to abolish slavery and polygamy. Numerous reports from American soldiers over the decade long insurrection commented on the Moro berserker-like tendencies where they would consume Areca nuts with stimulant-like properties and could sustain many gunshots in combat. The standard sidearm of the U.S. military, the .38 revolver was proven to be obsolete and helped spawn the invention and adoption of the 1911 .45 pistol.
The struggle with the Moros would catapult John J. Pershing’s early military career and he would ultimately be the third and final military governor of Moroland. In 1911 Pershing suggested and enforced a complete disarmament of the Moro people which would lead to their last resistance in two pitched battles. Their last stand would be made at the top of Mount Bagsak on the island of Jolo starting June 11th, 1913. Following previously successful tactics, Pershing would besiege the mountain and bring up heavy artillery to use against the primitive melee warriors with outdated firearms. On June 15th the final assault was made and all 500 Moro rebels, including the women and children, would be killed and the Americans would suffer 39 casualties.
The anti-imperialist movement would use the suppression of the Moro people and occupation of the Philippines as their top issue. Author Mark Twain denounced the occupation and American industry mogul Andrew Carnegie even offered to purchase the Philippines from the US Government to implement better policy. Today it is an unknown and overlooked conflict in American History. The Islamic Moro people are still the largest non-Christian minority in the Philippines and continued insurrection throughout the 20th century, including as recent as 2018 against Filipino president Rodrigo Duterte.


Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #733 on: June 16, 2022, 01:13:08 PM »

MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #734 on: June 17, 2022, 09:14:53 AM »
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #735 on: June 17, 2022, 10:01:15 AM »
I have a theory this was a prime contributor to our war with Japan in 1941.
the Japanese just didn't like the US presence in the Philippines?
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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #736 on: June 17, 2022, 11:14:31 AM »
We cut off Japanese oil because of China.  They were pretty desparate for oil, and they could obtain it in SE Asia, Borneo, Indonesia, etc.  However, the PI were astride the shipping lanes from there to Japan, so they felt PI had to be neutralized.  The initial plan was to invade the PI only and wait for the US response and sink our fleet mixPacific somewhere.  Yamamoto came up with a new plan which was adopted, which was a tactical success and huge strategic failure as they missed the carriers and many of the sunk BBs were refloated and repaired, which could not have happened in deep waters.

longhorn320

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #737 on: June 17, 2022, 11:24:50 AM »
We cut off Japanese oil because of China.  They were pretty desparate for oil, and they could obtain it in SE Asia, Borneo, Indonesia, etc.  However, the PI were astride the shipping lanes from there to Japan, so they felt PI had to be neutralized.  The initial plan was to invade the PI only and wait for the US response and sink our fleet mixPacific somewhere.  Yamamoto came up with a new plan which was adopted, which was a tactical success and huge strategic failure as they missed the carriers and many of the sunk BBs were refloated and repaired, which could not have happened in deep waters.
They also made the mistake of not taking out the oil storage area
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #738 on: June 17, 2022, 11:28:54 AM »
Yeah, they also needed that third strike.  Dry docks as well.  That would have meant the main fleet would have had to go back to California.  They could not have supported Pearl very well beyond subs and some lighter ships.

It is amazing to me that Midway happened just a few months later.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #739 on: June 17, 2022, 11:44:17 AM »
We cut off Japanese oil because of China.  They were pretty desparate for oil, and they could obtain it in SE Asia, Borneo, Indonesia, etc.  However, the PI were astride the shipping lanes from there to Japan, so they felt PI had to be neutralized.  The initial plan was to invade the PI only and wait for the US response and sink our fleet mixPacific somewhere.  Yamamoto came up with a new plan which was adopted, which was a tactical success and huge strategic failure as they missed the carriers and many of the sunk BBs were refloated and repaired, which could not have happened in deep waters.
What is fascinating to me is how short the window was during which war with not only the US but also Britain, their empire, and the Netherlands seemed like a logical idea for the Japanese. 

First, you have to understand that while many Japanese were fanatical and most of them believed strongly in Japanese racial superiority, they weren't altogether stupid.  They knew that the US alone had a VASTLY larger industrial capacity so they understood that if the US stuck to the war they (the Japanese) would eventually face fleets far larger than they could possibly hope to build and thus hopeless odds. 

Knowing this, they saw war as a logical idea anyway basically because of their experience in the Russo-Japanese War of 1904/5 and in WWI. 

In the Russo-Japanese War the Japanese also faced a country with a larger industrial base and a larger fleet but much like the US in the 1940's, Imperial Russia in 1904 had multiple naval commitments (The Baltic, the Black Sea, the Mediterranean,  the Atlantic, the Pacific).  The Japanese prevailed over the Czar because the Czar had other problems while Japan could focus exclusively in the Pacific and also because Imperial Russia in the early twentieth century was teetering dangerously close to collapse. 

In WWI the Japanese basically just picked the right side.  They joined the war on the allied side, nabbed a bunch of German and Austrian Pacific colonies while the Germans and Austrians were preoccupied and unable to do anything about it, then waited for the end of the war and viola, they got a bunch of stuff for not much engagement in the actual fighting of the war. 

So the background is that history, their belief in Japanese racial superiority, and their belief that the Americans were fat playboys unwilling to do any real fighting.  Then, from the German blitzkrieg over France up until the Germans were turned back at the gates of Moscow it looked to a lot of observers like the Germans would win the European war. 

The Pearl Harbor Raid or "Hawaii Operation" as the Japanese called it, utilized six large fleet carriers.  The last two of them to be built were the Shokaku Class Carriers Shokaku and Zuikaku where were commissioned on August 8, 1941 and September 25, 1941 respectively.  As it turned out the American defenses in Hawaii were so grossly deficient that the Japanese probably could have been successful with just the four older carriers but the Japanese didn't know that in advance.  Their prewar analysis would have indicated that they needed the six carriers because otherwise they'd have faced the possibility of being outnumbered by the American carrier planes to say nothing of land based American air power.  Thus, the operation wasn't believed to be feasible until these two carriers were commissioned and ready for battle.  I don't know exactly when Zuikaku was "ready for battle" but frankly it is awfully impressive that a ship commissioned on 9/25/41 was involved in a major combat operation barely two months later so it can't have been much before the actual raid. 

Meanwhile, the Soviet Counter-Offensive outside Moscow began on December 5, 1941 just two days before the Pearl Harbor raid.  That timing is NOT coincidental as Stalin's spy in Tokyo had notified the Kremlin that the Japanese would be attacking the US and other Western Powers in the Pacific rather than joining Germany's war against the Soviet Union and this information permitted the transfer of more than 18 divisions  from Siberia and the Far East to the war against Germany. 

Just a month later the Soviets had pushed the Germans back from the gates of Moscow and established a more defensible line.  If the Hawaii Operation had been delayed by a month it is possible (maybe not likely) that cooler heads may have prevailed in Japan.  Somebody in Japan might have looked at the situation in Europe and said "hey, Germany might not win this thing, we might be wise not to get into it on their side." 

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #740 on: June 17, 2022, 11:58:26 AM »
Japan faced a very tough choice regarding oil though, they were cut off, and running out, fast.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #741 on: June 17, 2022, 12:25:33 PM »
Japan faced a very tough choice regarding oil though, they were cut off, and running out, fast.
Agreed and their country was run by hotheaded Army guys who were outright nuts.  That is why I said it might not have been likely that cooler heads would have prevailed even if the PH raid had been delayed a month.  

The US Oil embargo was joined by the UK and the Dutch (who were governing as a "government in exile" in London) so Japan had to either back down (to get the embargo lifted) or go to war (to take the oil).  My point was simply that had they KNOWN that the Germans were going to lose in Europe they (or at least most Japanese people) would have also known by extension that they couldn't win a war against undistracted versions of the UK, US, and Netherlands.  At that point the only option is to back down.  

 

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