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Topic: OT- Umpires

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GopherRock

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2023, 07:52:52 PM »
Since we’re in this thread I have another question from something that happened in one of my daughter’s games last year.  We were playing a game with only one ump.

We were in the last inning of a tight game with runners on 2nd and 3rd.  Our batter laid a bunt down and our runner on third got caught in a rundown. The catcher threw it into left field and our runner came into score.  The ump calls her safe, she runs into the dugout, and our next batter is coming up to the plate.

The opposing coach comes out of the dugout and proceeds to have a lengthy conversation with the umpire.  After a few minutes the ump calls our runner who scored out for running outside the base path.

What is the protocol for appealing a call when there is only one umpire?  I would think if he were going to call that he could have (or should have) called it as it occurred. The way it appeared was the coach talked him into the call.

That one has always bugged me.  It killed our rally and we went on to lose the game in the bottom half the inning.  My wife, who was an assistant, got tossed for arguing the call.  That was actually the best part.  I still give her crap for getting ran.
I'm not sure what the procedure is, either. Essentially, it revolves to how receptive said umpire is to a discussion. 

Base paths don't mean anything if the runner isn't being played upon by a fielder with the ball. Rundowns are hard to cover, because there are so many things that can go haywire, any one of which could send the players or managers totally off their handle.

longhorn320

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2023, 08:04:08 PM »
Such a situation in both baseball and softball results in an immediate dead ball, the batter is out, and runners return to the bases last occupied at the time of the pitch.

https://collegesoftballumpires.org/infield-fly-and-intentional-drop-rules/


https://baseballrulesacademy.com/official-rule/mlb-umpire-manual/infielder-intentionally-drops-fly-ball-or-line-drive/

All this talk about the rules reminds me of this scene from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.



https://youtu.be/v010HXpfFSA
I guess we would just have to make it look like an accident
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2023, 10:29:10 AM »
My experience with infield fly isn’t that it’s called incorrectly but people misinterpret that the play is dead and runners can’t advance if the ball is dropped. I’ve seen a couple of parents throw fits because they didn’t know the rule.
I thought the rule was "advance at your own risk" ...

Cincydawg

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2023, 10:31:01 AM »
Infield Fly Rule Explained: What is it & Why Do They Have It? (baseballmonkey.com)
Infield Fly Rule Explained: What is it & Why Do They Have It? (baseballmonkey.com)

On a caught infield fly, runners must tag up in order to advance to the next base. This applies the same as with any catch. If the infield fly falls to fair ground untouched, or is touched and dropped, runners do not need to tag-up. However, since the batter is out, the force play on the other runners is removed.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2023, 10:52:16 AM »
Braves: Spencer Strider's interview with kid reporter got hilariously strange (fansided.com)
Braves: Spencer Strider's interview with kid reporter got hilariously strange (fansided.com)

Speaking of baseball .....  supinated release?

I've been taking pitching lessons from Pete Smith of late (four so far, making major strikes), I'll ask him about this term.

I wish I could have learned this stuff 50 years ago.  Pete likes golf a lot and compares the two, 90% of this is half mental.


longhorn320

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2023, 11:11:56 AM »
My experience with infield fly isn’t that it’s called incorrectly but people misinterpret that the play is dead and runners can’t advance if the ball is dropped. I’ve seen a couple of parents throw fits because they didn’t know the rule.
Thats only if the umps think you dropped it on purpose otherwise the ball is live and the runners are free to sta where they are or run to the next base but there is no force
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Riffraft

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2023, 11:23:53 AM »
Since we’re in this thread I have another question from something that happened in one of my daughter’s games last year.  We were playing a game with only one ump.

We were in the last inning of a tight game with runners on 2nd and 3rd.  Our batter laid a bunt down and our runner on third got caught in a rundown. The catcher threw it into left field and our runner came into score.  The ump calls her safe, she runs into the dugout, and our next batter is coming up to the plate.

The opposing coach comes out of the dugout and proceeds to have a lengthy conversation with the umpire.  After a few minutes the ump calls our runner who scored out for running outside the base path.

What is the protocol for appealing a call when there is only one umpire?  I would think if he were going to call that he could have (or should have) called it as it occurred. The way it appeared was the coach talked him into the call.

That one has always bugged me.  It killed our rally and we went on to lose the game in the bottom half the inning.  My wife, who was an assistant, got tossed for arguing the call.  That was actually the best part.  I still give her crap for getting ran.
Appeals are really no different when then is one umpire vs two umpires.  I am surprised that an Umpire would overturn that type of call on appeal, I would think he would have observed the runner out of the baseline during the play and called her out at that time. 

When I was forced to work a game by myself because my partner didn't show up, I would always tell the coaches, I didn't want to hear anything about a close play at out in the field. The only complaint I want to hear is if I wasn't hustling to try to get into position to make the call. Working a higher level game by yourself is not fun. 

longhorn320

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2023, 12:05:08 PM »
In order for the ump to be right the runner would have had to be trying to evade a tag

during the run down if not the call is bad
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2023, 12:28:01 PM »
Thats only if the umps think you dropped it on purpose otherwise the ball is live and the runners are free to sta where they are or run to the next base but there is no force
It should be called while the ball is in the air, dropping it on purpose has zero effect on the call.

FearlessF

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2023, 12:36:23 PM »
I'm not sure what the procedure is, either. Essentially, it revolves to how receptive said umpire is to a discussion.

Base paths don't mean anything if the runner isn't being played upon by a fielder with the ball. Rundowns are hard to cover, because there are so many things that can go haywire, any one of which could send the players or managers totally off their handle.
Are you sure it was base path and not missing the 3rd base bag?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

longhorn320

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2023, 12:50:32 PM »
It should be called while the ball is in the air, dropping it on purpose has zero effect on the call.
you are wrong
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

longhorn320

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They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2023, 12:54:57 PM »
I think it SHOULD be called once it is apparent an infielder could make the play with ordinary effort, which means while the ball is in the air.  I don't understand why it would be called after a catch is made, or muffed.  Now perhaps there are situations where it's a low popup, not a line drive, and there isn't time to make the call clear.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2023, 12:56:48 PM »
The rulebook definition of Infield Fly[1] says the umpire "shall immediately declare 'Infield Fly' for the benefit of the runners." However, sometimes they do not. As in the 2008 World Series game, there may be doubt as to whether the ball was catchable by an infielder with ordinary effort. If not called, the infield fly rule is not in effect. The same definition includes a comment that "The infield fly is in no sense to be considered an appeal play." This suggests that the batter cannot be ruled out retroactively to settle a debate that occurs after the play ends.[15] However, in Major League Baseball, the umpires are likely to correct their mistake if it leads to an unfair double or triple play.[

 

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