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Topic: OT: The Basketball Tournament End of Game Rule

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MaximumSam

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OT: The Basketball Tournament End of Game Rule
« on: July 27, 2018, 04:57:47 PM »
So, The Basketball Tournament is going on, which I was vaguely aware of because Ohio State has a team of former OSU players, and BJ Mullens caused some drama by pulling out over pay issues.  It's not something I care about.

However, The Ringer put up an article about a rule change called the Elam rule, where at the end of the game, with 4 or fewer minutes less, the clock disappears after a stoppage.  Gone.  Instead of playing against the clock, a target score is made by adding 7 points to the winning team's score.  Then, whoever reaches this score first wins.  

I thought this was kind of fascinating.  Late game basketball can be borderline unwatchable with all the fouls and timeouts, and this rule is aimed right at that.  It's such a wild change and seems arbitrary, but also seems like it would make late game basketball flow like the rest of the game instead of stopping play every other half second.  

ELA

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Re: OT: The Basketball Tournament End of Game Rule
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2018, 05:01:12 PM »
I've seen that tossed around, and I kind of like it.  I think the only downside would be the end of the crazy odd defying buzzer beaters.  Jordan Poole would hit a half court shot, Laettner wouldn't catch a full length pass.  The flip side is that technically every game would end on the final shot.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT: The Basketball Tournament End of Game Rule
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2018, 05:28:41 PM »
I would have to think more about unintended consequences but, in theory, I really like the idea.  No clock just play to a score and, the team with an advantage would keep it.  Ie, if you entered the no-clock portion of the game up 10 you would only have to score 7 before your opponent scored 17.  Intriguing to be sure.  

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: OT: The Basketball Tournament End of Game Rule
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2018, 05:56:09 PM »
Maybe the unintended consequence would be one of those Wisconsin-Northwestern games from a few years back where it would be like 36-32 with four minutes to go. You might be there all night waiting for one of the teams to score seven points. 

1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

Anonymous Coward

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Re: OT: The Basketball Tournament End of Game Rule
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2018, 06:36:30 PM »
We discussed this problem in depth during the tournament, but I don't remember this solution coming up. Am all for a change - intensely wanting one - and this version may be best.

How was 7 points settled upon? Because it sounds right? (It does, btw)

ELA

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Re: OT: The Basketball Tournament End of Game Rule
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2018, 06:59:42 PM »
Maybe the unintended consequence would be one of those Wisconsin-Northwestern games from a few years back where it would be like 36-32 with four minutes to go. You might be there all night waiting for one of the teams to score seven points.


4 minutes is 1/10 of the game.  So maybe take the winning teams score, round up to 10 and make it 1/10 of that.  So if you've scored 36 points in 36 minutes, round up, and divide by 10, winning score is 40.  If you've scored 82 in the first 36, winning score is 91.  By doing that you basically allow for the game to continue at the scoring pace it was.

Anonymous Coward

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Re: OT: The Basketball Tournament End of Game Rule
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2018, 07:55:43 PM »
It's a nice idea; no doubt, it's less arbitrary. Then, it also discourages being high scoring. Under your recommendation, a 6 point lead at 100 (earn 10 before your opponent earns 16, an obstacle 62.5% as challenging as your opponent's) is more tenuous than a 6 point lead at 50 (earn 5 before your opponent earns 11, an obstacle 45.5% as challenging as your opponent's). 
I guess that's your aim. But for now I feel every 4-minute 6-point lead should be rewarded as equal.

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: OT: The Basketball Tournament End of Game Rule
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2018, 08:31:06 PM »
We are just talking College and maybe pros, right? Not BB across the board?

1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

ELA

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Re: OT: The Basketball Tournament End of Game Rule
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2018, 09:11:49 PM »
It's a nice idea; no doubt, it's less arbitrary. Then, it also discourages being high scoring. Under your recommendation, a 6 point lead at 100 (earn 10 before your opponent earns 16, an obstacle 62.5% as challenging as your opponent's) is more tenuous than a 6 point lead at 50 (earn 5 before your opponent earns 11, an obstacle 45.5% as challenging as your opponent's).
I guess that's your aim. But for now I feel every 4-minute 6-point lead should be rewarded as equal.
That artificially extends or shortens games based on pace though.  I think the goal of the rule is to eliminate the fouling and have the game end in a similar manner to how the previous 36 minutes were played.  To do that you need to have the scoring pace of the final 4 minutes match the scoring pace from the previous 36.
And no not all 6 point leads are equal.  A 6 point lead in a defensive struggle does feel like a much bigger advantage than a 6 point lead in a shootout.

ELA

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Re: OT: The Basketball Tournament End of Game Rule
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2018, 09:12:12 PM »
We are just talking College and maybe pros, right? Not BB across the board?


Why not?

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: OT: The Basketball Tournament End of Game Rule
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2018, 10:17:56 PM »
Why not?
Have you ever looked at the scores from MS girls BB games? They are all like 17-8. 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT: The Basketball Tournament End of Game Rule
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2018, 08:57:47 AM »
4 minutes is 1/10 of the game.  So maybe take the winning teams score, round up to 10 and make it 1/10 of that.  So if you've scored 36 points in 36 minutes, round up, and divide by 10, winning score is 40.  If you've scored 82 in the first 36, winning score is 91.  By doing that you basically allow for the game to continue at the scoring pace it was.
I like this idea in theory but in practice I think it might be too complicated.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT: The Basketball Tournament End of Game Rule
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2018, 08:58:27 AM »
Have you ever looked at the scores from MS girls BB games? They are all like 17-8.
FWIW:  ELA's idea would solve this problem.  If it was 15-6 with four minutes to go the winning score would be 17.  

ELA

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Re: OT: The Basketball Tournament End of Game Rule
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2018, 08:58:56 AM »
I like this idea in theory but in practice I think it might be too complicated.  
I don't think so.  I think I simplified it down enough that it's easy.  It's not like this will be calculated on the fly.  I'm assuming for this rule in general we are discussing that it starts as of the under 4:00 TV timeout?  So it starts when you come back from a dead ball break.

 

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