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Topic: OT - Cable Alternatives

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT - Cable Alternatives
« Reply #154 on: May 15, 2018, 08:50:43 AM »
I lean to thinking that those "Russian bots" were really not that effective.  The ones I have seen were rather amateurish, and the folks who passed them on using SM were already going to vote X or Y.  Did they influence any of the undecideds?

Perhaps so, but there was a background of billions being spent by both campaigns.  How did the undecided decide?  Did some of them hear about some child sex ring in a pizza parlor run by the Clintons and decide on that basis?

If so, their decision was going to be decided by rather "tenuous" means anyway.

I think it would be interesting to interview folks who decided very late as to what influenced their choice.
The Russian bots wouldn't exist if they weren't effective.  The time and money spent on them would be put to some other, more effective use.  
Ads work. Negative ads work.  The Koch Bros. don't sprinkle their millions of dollars in this race and in that race in the HOPES that it influences the elections - they KNOW it will.  That's the whole reason they do it.  They've spent untold millions making sure money = wins, and it does.
There are many, MANY one-issue voters.  I can't fathom voting for the leader of our entire country based on one issue.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT - Cable Alternatives
« Reply #155 on: May 15, 2018, 09:00:16 AM »
Well, there are a lot of things to unpack in this... "Conservatives" as a general rule are not opposed to government. They are very concerned about "big government", i.e. a behemoth that becomes and entity unto itself and is driven by its own goals and needs and is no longer accountable.

When you talk about government, there are two basic methods by which people can influence government, "Voice" and "Exit". Voice is basically democracy, how much control each of us has through our speech and our votes. Exit is our ability to leave and find a government more amenable to our preferences. I.e. every time Badge talks about how horrible Illinois is and how he's planning to leave for a better-run state, that's exit--he knows he can't change Illinois, so he might as well go somewhere better.



Well, there are a lot of things to unpack in this... "Conservatives" as a general rule are not opposed to government. They are very concerned about "big government", i.e. a behemoth that becomes and entity unto itself and is driven by its own goals and needs and is no longer accountable.

When you talk about government, there are two basic methods by which people can influence government, "Voice" and "Exit". Voice is basically democracy, how much control each of us has through our speech and our votes. Exit is our ability to leave and find a government more amenable to our preferences. I.e. every time Badge talks about how horrible Illinois is and how he's planning to leave for a better-run state, that's exit--he knows he can't change Illinois, so he might as well go somewhere better.

The smaller the unit of government is, the more your voice carries and the lower the costs of exit.

An HOA is generally small enough that there is a high responsiveness to voice and a relatively easy exit. Now, that doesn't mean they're all good. In fact, a lot of them are terrible, because the people who tend to be attracted to them are the ones who are MOST interested in controlling others' lives. It's REALLY easy to go from "we want to maintain property values so nobody is allowed to put their rusted pickup truck up on blocks in the front yard" to "that's the wrong shade of beige, Susan, so you need to repaint your house or we'll fine you". But in theory, a well-run HOA is both responsive to the residents of the community while not oppressive to them, and as such it protects the interests of the entire community from bad apples.


I haven't dealt with HOAs personally, but my friends that have - theirs are like this.  They wouldn't let my friend paint her front door the color she wanted.  WTF is that???  
I saw the parallel with conservatives because they preach doing things yourself.  Cut your own grass.  Provide your own security.  Don't rely on others to do that stuff for you, you lazy bum!  Take some self-responsibility.  
But conservatives also tend to want to hold on to as much of their money as possible so that they may live comfortable lives, segregated from the "riff-raff". 
There's a grocery market here in Phoenix called "AJ's Fine Foods" - and it has high-level wine, probably better meat and produce, sure, better than you'd find at some other random chain.  But here's what irks me - they have all the other processed crap everyone else has, but they sell it for much higher prices.  You want some Cheez-Its?  It's not $3.00, they price it at $7.00 just to keep the riff raff out.  
HOAs are the same thing.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Cable Alternatives
« Reply #156 on: May 15, 2018, 09:56:13 AM »
HOA communities in general have rules, including at times how you can change the outside appearance of your dwelling.  Otherwise, someone could paint their door orange and reduce property values, or fail to mow their lawn, or put up an above ground pool.  If you don't like the restrictions, don't move there.

I don't see any overlap at all with whatever conservatives want, or liberals want.  We had an HOA where I lived and they were unobtrusive in the main, and the one here is the same, though more evident because it's a condo.  I've noticed quite a few of our neighbors are married men, to other men, so it is probable they are leaning liberal.  Our real estate agent is gay and we got friendly enough to broach the topic and he is very liberal as well.  He's also a tremendously nice guy who was very professional and competent.  We probably also have some conservatives around somewhere.  Fine with me, I enjoy diversity of opinion.

I'm sure SOME conservatives prefer to live as independently as possible out in the wilderness, but like liberals, they are not somehow all the same in every respect, at all.  A buddy of mine was like that, wanted to live on 10 acres with no zoning around him, but in fact, he is about as liberal as anyone can be (from GB originally).  He hates guns and wants them banned, for example. He wants universal health care, though he says the British system is a mess. 

Some people actually have some views that are liberal and some that are conservative all at the same time.  Others find their political positions as being whatever their party defines them to be, down the line.  That has the benefit of eliminating any thinking process of course.  I would bet the group here is mostly the former type, able to hold divergent views on various topics because the posters here show evidence of critical thinking skills in nearly every case, I can't think of an exception right now.

I'm against all over generalizations.


FearlessF

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Re: OT - Cable Alternatives
« Reply #157 on: May 15, 2018, 10:27:26 AM »
yup, don't like HOAs, don't move there

Cincy, regarding security, hopefully keys aren't simply handed out to plumbers and other maintenance contractors.
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847badgerfan

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Re: OT - Cable Alternatives
« Reply #158 on: May 15, 2018, 10:29:54 AM »
Yeah... I know I'm all over the map when it comes to politics. But then again, most of the hot-button "issue" are just non-issues to me.

I'm not sure why abortion has to be political. Never understood that, not one iota. Aside from the fact that it's an "issue" that divides people for some reason... Which pols like to do - divide.

I'm not falling for that crap. Just look at the person and vote properly according to your own beliefs and thoughts. Party is bulljive.

Two "real" choices for the most powerful office in the world, yet we have 50+ choices for a beauty pageant. Ugh.

The guy I voted for didn't get many others. Oh well. Didn't matter anyway, in this God-forsaken State.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Cable Alternatives
« Reply #159 on: May 15, 2018, 10:44:19 AM »
yup, don't like HOAs, don't move there

Cincy, regarding security, hopefully keys aren't simply handed out to plumbers and other maintenance contractors.
No, they cannot get any keys at all.  They report to the front desk, sign in and we get a call to ensure they are OK and we're home, then they get elevator access and knock on our door.
We can include some additional names on our list who are able to obtain keys, but that is family members.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Cable Alternatives
« Reply #160 on: May 15, 2018, 10:45:44 AM »
IMHO, the political parties both benefit from division.  If their supporters are mad about stuff, they get more involved and DONATE more money.  If the parties are getting along and compromising, this is reduced.

That is why politicians spend so much time on divisive issues and hype instead of issues where it's obvious some compromise is very possible.

847badgerfan

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Re: OT - Cable Alternatives
« Reply #161 on: May 15, 2018, 10:55:29 AM »
^^^

Nailed.
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Riffraft

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Re: OT - Cable Alternatives
« Reply #162 on: May 15, 2018, 11:29:00 AM »
bwar put it perfectly above.

Through that lens, then, an HOA is actually well-suited for many conservatives and libertarians, because it is in fact the opposite of the large, inefficient, and ineffectual Federal government they rail against.

Actually as a libertarian, I rail against any entity that wants to tell me what I can or cannot do with my property whether it is inefficient or efficient, whether it is ineffectual or effectual.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Cable Alternatives
« Reply #163 on: May 15, 2018, 11:53:30 AM »
Just about everywhere has zoning ordinances.  Maybe some places out west don't, but even there you have mineral and water rights, or not.  I doubt any of us own land "free and clear" on which we can do as we wish.

And course there is the EPA as well.

Riffraft

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Re: OT - Cable Alternatives
« Reply #164 on: May 15, 2018, 12:14:30 PM »
Just about everywhere has zoning ordinances.  Maybe some places out west don't, but even there you have mineral and water rights, or not.  I doubt any of us own land "free and clear" on which we can do as we wish.

And course there is the EPA as well.
 Truth is we do not own any land period. Even if you don't have a mortgage, if you don't pay your feudal lord his annual serfdoom fee (property taxes), he will kick you off his land. 
I can talk about how I think it should be (as to property rights), but I am under no illusion as to the realty of how things are and how they are going to continue to be. 

847badgerfan

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Re: OT - Cable Alternatives
« Reply #165 on: May 15, 2018, 12:28:57 PM »
I'm good at property law. Could make a new thread, but only me and the damn lawyers would be on it.

Got a survey project in front of me now, and the legal description in the deed was written by a lawyer.

Needless to say, this one is not going well.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT - Cable Alternatives
« Reply #166 on: May 15, 2018, 12:52:54 PM »
I have found that HOAs can attract the domineering power hungry types.  We were lucky not to have any in our subdivision, which had an annual HOA of $175 to cover the landscaping needs in the common areas.  They had problems getting anyone to "run" for the committee.  I never did, didn't care.

I haven't dealt with HOAs personally, but my friends that have - theirs are like this.  They wouldn't let my friend paint her front door the color she wanted.  WTF is that???  
Like I said, it can be a mix. When I lived in Atlanta (Marietta, actually), we had a pretty chill HOA. But when elections came around, it was well-understood that one guy who kept trying to get on the board was to be voted against at all costs. He was the domineering power hungry type. 

In fact, we had a new couple move in, and became friends with them. One night over drinks they told us that they only bought the house because they saw how badly the previous owners had maintained the yard. They said they knew once they saw that, they wouldn't be hassled about making improvements. They wanted to make their yard really nice, mind you, they just didn't want to deal with a whole bunch of paperwork.

Where I used to live here in SoCal, I think it was bit more difficult. I put in a new fence and had to get it approved by the HOA. But really it was just a paperwork hassle more than a fight, so it wasn't bad. Everything got signed off despite the fact that we were going from wood fencing to vinyl. 

Actually as a libertarian, I rail against any entity that wants to tell me what I can or cannot do with my property whether it is inefficient or efficient, whether it is ineffectual or effectual.
Hey, as a libertarian, I'm with you. Because I'm responsible and well-behaved, and I would never do something crazy like put a pickup truck up on blocks in my front yard. So if I want to do some landscaping, etc, I have taste [or more accurately my wife does] and I guarantee it will improve the aesthetic of the neighborhood.

But I don't trust everyone else. Bad neighbors who don't maintain their property and who do things which destroy the character of the neighborhood are a drain on everyone else. They can impact the desirability of a property when it comes time to sell by tens of thousands of dollars. 

As I said, a good HOA helps and protects all the homeowners in a neighborhood. A bad HOA is full of petty tyrants who like to lord over everyone in the neighborhood because they're attracted to power, even as minor as that of an HOA. 

Libertarianism isn't anarchism. As a libertarian, I don't support the idea of a centralized Washington DC bureaucracy that is the HOA for the nation. Because you lose Voice and Exit. At a local level, however, where you have a choice of where to live, you have Voice and Exit. HOAs are neither ubiquitous nor identical. Some HOAs are more restrictive than others, some are less restrictive, and some neighborhoods have no HOA at all. Libertarians like the idea that each of us can choose to live in the community that matches our temperaments, and yours may be non-HOA. But some people prefer an HOA to avoid the risk of bad neighbors ruining their property values. And some people [for whatever reason] seem to love living in a cookie-cutter master-planned community where everything looks the same. I don't get it, but it's their choice.

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Cable Alternatives
« Reply #167 on: May 15, 2018, 02:06:48 PM »
Like I said, it can be a mix. When I lived in Atlanta (Marietta, actually), we had a pretty chill HOA. But when elections came around, it was well-understood that one guy who kept trying to get on the board was to be voted against at all costs. He was the domineering power hungry type.
same thing in a small town city council
I guess an HOA might be needed if the standards of the city are not high enuff or not enforced
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