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Topic: NCAA rules committee bans the fake slide

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bayareabadger

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Re: NCAA rules committee bans the fake slide
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2021, 10:43:47 AM »
This choice was good and allowing the slide at all is bad. 

Just let people dive and penalize if folks are obviously piling on when they're on the ground. Done and done. The slide where they pop up and the ball is spotted four yards back is deeply irritating. 

utee94

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Re: NCAA rules committee bans the fake slide
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2021, 10:45:07 AM »
Yup, this clarification is the first thing I've seen in a long time, aimed at helping the defenders.

Although honestly I think they're more worried about the NEXT time a slide happens, and the defenders presume it's fake, and light the ballcarrier up anyway.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: NCAA rules committee bans the fake slide
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2021, 10:53:27 AM »
Disagree with you 1000000000%.

We already have a rule for when the ball is down.  If the ballcarrier doesn't want to get hit, he can go down well before the defenders arrive.  But instead, the slide rule enables the ballcarrier to wait until the last possible moment, sometimes even after the defenders are committed to a hit, and then slide.  And let's be honest, the typical case here, is a QB who has made it past the first line of defenders, is in the open field, and is trying to make it past the line to gain.  The moment he clears that, he begins a slide, and any defender that was about to hit him, must take sometimes extraordinary measures NOT to hit, lest he get called with the foul of hitting the guy wearing a skirt.

The result is that the slide rule's sole purpose effectively becomes protecting a QB trying to gain a couple extra yards without the consequence of getting hit.  In the true version of this sport, without the stupid and unnecessary slide rule, if that quarterback doesn't want to get hit, he has the option of going down a couple of yards earlier, well before the defenders arrive.  Of course, that would mean he wouldn't get the 1st down.  So the slide rule's only real value is enabling a ballcarrier to get extra yardage they wouldn't otherwise be entitled to under the normal rules of the game.
Yeah, but if you can actually make it past the sticks before initiating the slide, then that's a good thing, right? 

The bigger issue is someone who starts their slide a yard short of the sticks to avoid the hit, but expects the ball to be spotted beyond the sticks because that's where they actually were when their knee touched. 

Refs and replay officials have started to wise up to this. In this year's Purdue/UConn game there was an instance where the UConn QB started his slide about a half yard shy of the sticks on 3rd down and was originally spotted with the first down, and it was overturned on replay, resulting in a punt. 

I can also say I don't see a lot of penalties against defenders hitting a sliding player if they actually do pull up. Refs have been pretty lenient on the sort of plays where a defender can't avoid contact as long as the defender shows an attempt to avoid it and doesn't make it an egregious hit. 

utee94

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Re: NCAA rules committee bans the fake slide
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2021, 10:56:14 AM »
Yeah, but if you can actually make it past the sticks before initiating the slide, then that's a good thing, right?

The bigger issue is someone who starts their slide a yard short of the sticks to avoid the hit, but expects the ball to be spotted beyond the sticks because that's where they actually were when their knee touched.

Refs and replay officials have started to wise up to this. In this year's Purdue/UConn game there was an instance where the UConn QB started his slide about a half yard shy of the sticks on 3rd down and was originally spotted with the first down, and it was overturned on replay, resulting in a punt.

I can also say I don't see a lot of penalties against defenders hitting a sliding player if they actually do pull up. Refs have been pretty lenient on the sort of plays where a defender can't avoid contact as long as the defender shows an attempt to avoid it and doesn't make it an egregious hit.

You and I are just coming at it from different sides then, because I've seen (and continue to see) many times when the ballcarrier begins the slide before the sticks and is still awarded the 1st down, and I've seen (and continue to see) many times when the defenders are called for contact that was literally impossible to avoid because they committed to the tackle before the slide was initiated.


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: NCAA rules committee bans the fake slide
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2021, 10:57:08 AM »
This choice was good and allowing the slide at all is bad.

Just let people dive and penalize if folks are obviously piling on when they're on the ground. Done and done. The slide where they pop up and the ball is spotted four yards back is deeply irritating.
But if that's where they initiated the slide, it's correct. The balance of the provision of protection is that you don't get to count any yardage after you initiate the slide. The ball is dead right there even if your knee doesn't touch the ground until 2+ yards downfield. 

BTW if the quarterback dives for yardage (head first), that's not a slide and defenders can hit him. There is no protection for the QB in that case.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: NCAA rules committee bans the fake slide
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2021, 10:59:04 AM »
You and I are just coming at it from different sides then, because I've seen (and continue to see) many times when the ballcarrier begins the slide before the sticks and is still awarded the 1st down, and I've seen (and continue to see) many times when the defenders are called for contact that was literally impossible to avoid because they committed to the tackle before the slide was initiated.
Fair enough. I do think spots had been VERY generous in the past and it's something that they've been trying to tighten up. And I've seen quite a few cases where a player can't avoid contact but makes a visible attempt to pull up and not get flagged for it. 

Maybe B12 refs are different because they want to support Twelving :57:

utee94

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Re: NCAA rules committee bans the fake slide
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2021, 11:02:36 AM »
But if that's where they initiated the slide, it's correct. The balance of the provision of protection is that you don't get to count any yardage after you initiate the slide. The ball is dead right there even if your knee doesn't touch the ground until 2+ yards downfield.

BTW if the quarterback dives for yardage (head first), that's not a slide and defenders can hit him. There is no protection for the QB in that case.
I don't think anyone is arguing this is the correct interpretation of the rule.  The irritating part is that it introduces yet another level of subjectivity into a process that shouldn't be all that difficult.  There are well established rules for what constitutes being "down" in college football, there are well established rules regarding the penalties for late hits and/or unnecessary roughness, and there are well established rules for what constitutes getting the ball past the line to gain. 

The slide rule obfuscates and confuses the rules, because it creates a special case, that doesn't need to be considered.  It's redundant and unnecessary.  Just use, and enforce, all of the other rules surrounding a ballcarrier, tackling, and the line to gain.

What's the worst outcome?  QBs no longer get to wait until the last possible moment to decide to go down while placing the entire onus of deciding whether or not to make a fair tackle in the open field entirely on the defender in a split second with the balance of the game potentially on the line?

Yeah, I can live with that.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: NCAA rules committee bans the fake slide
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2021, 11:04:22 AM »
You and I are just coming at it from different sides then, because I've seen (and continue to see) many times when the ballcarrier begins the slide before the sticks and is still awarded the 1st down, and I've seen (and continue to see) many times when the defenders are called for contact that was literally impossible to avoid because they committed to the tackle before the slide was initiated.


This. 

and how many times do we see a targeting call when the defensive player is going in at a sideways, shoulder first angle, the way they are taught but the offense of player lowers his head after the defensive player initiates their action.

the most recognizable one for me was the Shaun Wade ejection for targeting Trevor Lawrence.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=you+tube+shaun+wade+targetting&t=iphone&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DTPlANwvBCLY


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rolltidefan

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Re: NCAA rules committee bans the fake slide
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2021, 11:15:15 AM »
This. 

and how many times do we see a targeting call when the defensive player is going in at a sideways, shoulder first angle, the way they are taught but the offense of player lowers his head after the defensive player initiates their action.

the most recognizable one for me was the Shaun Wade ejection for targeting Trevor Lawrence.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=you+tube+shaun+wade+targetting&t=iphone&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DTPlANwvBCLY



man i hate targeting so bad. absolutely nothing wrong with that play.

MaximumSam

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Re: NCAA rules committee bans the fake slide
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2021, 11:28:58 AM »
The slide rule is one of the few rules in major sports history that basically exists to protect unathletic people who are trying to make an athletic play.

rolltidefan

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Re: NCAA rules committee bans the fake slide
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2021, 12:12:59 PM »
The slide rule is one of the few rules in major sports history that basically exists to protect unathletic people who are trying to make an athletic play.
no reason to bring me into this.

MaximumSam

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Re: NCAA rules committee bans the fake slide
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2021, 12:39:31 PM »
I could have gotten paid to play basketball if everyone over 6'2'' wasn't allowed to raise their arms when I took a shot

bayareabadger

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Re: NCAA rules committee bans the fake slide
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2021, 01:47:06 PM »
But if that's where they initiated the slide, it's correct. The balance of the provision of protection is that you don't get to count any yardage after you initiate the slide. The ball is dead right there even if your knee doesn't touch the ground until 2+ yards downfield.

BTW if the quarterback dives for yardage (head first), that's not a slide and defenders can hit him. There is no protection for the QB in that case.
Oh, I know that’s the rule, it’s just irritating visually.

And I think if you dive and some trying to tackle you lands on you, that’s AOK. If a whole bunch of people pile on after you land, not ideal, though I’d say that for a tailback too, though they rarely dive just to get down.

utee94

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Re: NCAA rules committee bans the fake slide
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2021, 02:20:32 PM »
Another one I hated was the halo rule and, even though that's gone, there's still "allow to catch" rules that are often subjectively called in the same way.

I mean, if only there were some mechanism by which a kick returner that didn't want to get blasted by the opposing team's players, could somehow signal to them that he'd like a fair opportunity to catch the ball.  In return he'd be giving up the chance to return it but if those defenders are already barreling down on him, it sure would be really great for there to be some method-- perhaps a hand signal or something-- which would let them know he'd like a fair chance at catching.  If only such a thing existed, it would be really great.

 

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