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There are veterans and groups of veterans with training and experience aplenty that could stand down just about any agency IF that agency plays it between the lines.

Feds and states know this.  Its a very vivid and discussed fear of theirs. Most vets who are also part of those feds and states and that I know find this funny.  Those profiled types are imagined as foes, when if this nation was ever infiltrated those vets would be massive assets----- unless those infiltrators WERE the feds... then, they'd have a problem. 

They "make us" and "used us for their games" and then they "fear us" when we're past that obligation, and seek means to neutralize us.

That's hilarious. 

If you think well armed citizens can't stand against feds or states, you need to reevaluate your reasoning.  The freakin taliban stood against the best trained and equipped military with loads and loads of gadgets with little more than tribal ingenuity... the Iraqi and insurgents of university aged, mostly, fighters laid a hurting on the same military- far more than anyone would have suspected, and did so with little if any training and less equipment. 

Taking ground when you don't plan on keeping it or extracting it's resources is easy.... taking it without massive infrastructural damage and retaining it? Not so easy. 

Deer hunters from Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana and west Virginia alone amd on opening day represent the largest standing army in the world... add the south and Texas in that, it's three times the largest standing army.  If together, nobody is ever taking this nation over from outside amd leaving anything worth having when they're done and if they're successful...

That isn't accidental; that's by design... design of our forefathers before it became corrupt to the core and they began to fear us.  The only reason they'd want us disarmed is if they plan on doing something we'd shoot them for.  Its that simple.  Furthermore and drawn from actual data, a well armed group is highly unlikely to be attacked by criminals.  When is the last time a police bar was robbed? Why aren't drug houses raided by other criminals all the time?  Has anyone ever busted into a gun club amd tried to hold them up or shoot them?  ..... I freakin wonder why. 

Kids.  That's the only reason a weapon should be secured.  And I'm all for having both state sponsored gun handling classes for kids as well as taking a kid at a young young age out with a BB gun and having them kill a bird or a rabbit just so they realize, harshly, how something can be destroyed in a moment and what that feels like.

This is a great post. 10 years ago, I'm not sure I would have agreed with this, but I've been lucky enough to make a couple very close friendships with some incredibly well trained, former military men, two of whom are likely some of the best trained and best shots the military has had. These guys don't take their duty lightly and their duty in their eyes is not specifically blind loyalty to the government. 

This is a great post. 10 years ago, I'm not sure I would have agreed with this, but I've been lucky enough to make a couple very close friendships with some incredibly well trained, former military men, two of whom are likely some of the best trained and best shots the military has had. These guys don't take their duty lightly and their duty in their eyes is not specifically blind loyalty to the government.

More delusions of grandeur.  
No ongoing training. None of the new 'toys.' 

A bunch of Uncle Ricos who think they're magically maintaining their peak 20 years after the fact.  
Respectfully.

This is a great post. 10 years ago, I'm not sure I would have agreed with this, but I've been lucky enough to make a couple very close friendships with some incredibly well trained, former military men, two of whom are likely some of the best trained and best shots the military has had. These guys don't take their duty lightly and their duty in their eyes is not specifically blind loyalty to the government.

My son has the course marksmanship record at Camp Pendleton when he did his Marine boot camp there. Still stands today.

Even today he can bullseye a target a mile away. He has several decorations from his service.

My son has the course marksmanship record at Camp Pendleton when he did his Marine boot camp there. Still stands today.

Even today he can bullseye a target a mile away. He has several decorations from his service.

That's awesome! I have a tough time when we go and shoot. I think I'm a pretty decent shot and my buddy is definitely a different breed. When he starts blurting out the calculations based on wind speed and distance, i just chuckle. I'm a numbers guy, but his brain function and his ability to shoot from distances is why there's a lot of terrorists 6 feet under from his trigger finger. 

Good on your son. A mile away is crazy and I know from witnessing in person how absurd it is lol

But if it were to happen, you're right, shit has hit the fan and the usual concerns of war no longer matter.

Cost?  Wouldn't matter.
Collateral damage?  Wouldn't matter.

If it wanted to, the US military could erase any rural town full of hunters.  The Taliban were on their home turf....the US would be the home turf of the US soldiers. 

Again, we agree it wouldn't happen, but the mindset of being obsessed with the 2nd amendment needs to omit any type of militia nonsense. 
It's a childish hero complex fantasy, nothing more.

Your underlying point got lost in your need to be a condescending A-hole.  This is not unusual with you.  

The point that no random citizen, no matter how well armed they are individually, can actually stand up to the US Military is correct.  

That, however, isn't the point.  The point is that the armed citizenry makes them KNOW that there will be a price.  They can't just do terrible things to us without cost because we CAN fight back.  Individually we can't win, but we can fight and that is what matters.  

To understand the principle, consider this:
You've probably heard the lyrics to the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" but if not the relevant part is:
"As He has died to make men holy let us live to make men free."  

Above is the modern version.  Back during the actual Civil War the Union Soldiers marched off to war singing:
"As He has died to make men hold let us die to make men free."  

In case the references escape you, "he" refers to Jesus.  Nearly 100% of the Union Soldiers were Christians so the reference was obvious to them.  Whether YOU believe it or not is completely irrelevant as is whether or not it is true.  What IS relevant is that THEY believed that Jesus died for them and they marched off to war singing a song holding that as an example then preparing to "Die to make men free."  

My 2-great Grandfather, Joshua, was a Quaker from Ohio.  As a Quaker he opposed slavery but the Quakers were also pacifists.  He determined that slavery couldn't be ended by sitting around a meeting talking about it so he joined the Union Army specifically for the purpose of ending slavery.  His brother (my 3-great Uncle Caleb) was killed in a small town in SE Pennsylvania on July 3, 1863.  

Joshua and Caleb marched off to war singing "As He has died to make men holy let us DIE to make men free." because the principle was worth not only killing but dying for.  

The right to keep and bear arms is of equal importance.  It is worth not only killing but even dying for.  

Hitler, Stalin, Mao:  The experts agree, Gun Control works!

Waco was awesome.  We need more of that.

What a complete cluster-*$% of an operation.  

Some Rambo-complex government functionaries spilled a lot of innocent blood just to show how badass they were.  

I didn't know this until years later.  I always assumed that Koresh was holed up at the compound and the ONLY way they could get him was to assault the place.  MUCH later I learned that he had a habit of going into town for various reasons fairly often.  WTF?  Why not just ambush his vehicle THEN when you aren't killing women and children as collateral damage?  

Really, you think it is only this topic? 

I was trying to narrow it down. You and I have been a-holes to each other on specific topics, but can be fine on countless others. Maybe my post was made from a position of hope rather than truth.