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Topic: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
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MaximumSam · « **Reply #882 on:** August 23, 2018, 10:58:01 AM »

Quote from: HailHailMSP on August 23, 2018, 10:41:00 AM

The irony in the decision and punishment, if there is one, is that by trying to take the middle ground with a suspension Ohio State has appeased virtually no one. That is why I thought it was all or nothing from the get go.

On one side you have the die hard scarlet & gray now calling for the President’s job, feeling like Meyer is a scapegoat to align with the SJW crowd. See former player and well regarded alum Matt Finkes for an example.

On the other side you have the national media and everyone outside of Ohio marching with their pitchforks, including some former players for Ohio State.

The problem now is this story will persist. David Pollack noted as much. Media members will poke and prod at every angle. They will revisit Chris Rainey, Percy Harvin, and Aaron Hernandez. They will dig deeper on Carlos Hyde and if Zeke had any history while in Columbus. They will seek the admin assistant or her ex-spouse / spouse for an expose. This isn’t Baylor, but with the decision made, there is significant risk that this hangs like a cloud over the school for some time. Death by a thousand paper cuts.

I'm back and forth on that. The way the news cycle goes now things move pretty fast, and after the national media excretes their boilerplate editorials they will move on.
I do think there is some precedent now on closely examining people around big time teams. This kind of national coverage, 500K investigation, and suspension for a bigtime coach for more or less keeping a douchebag on staff is unprecedented. You can bet your bottom dollar Zach Smith isn't the only douchebag to be employed by a football team.

FearlessF · « **Reply #883 on:** August 23, 2018, 10:59:18 AM »

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 23, 2018, 10:58:01 AM

You can bet your bottom dollar Zach Smith isn't the only douchebag to be employed by a football team.

that's for DARNED sure

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #884 on:** August 23, 2018, 11:07:40 AM »

Quote from: ELA on August 23, 2018, 10:48:37 AM

This.

The s*** you have to deal with being a big time college football coach. The travel, the limited family time, the win-at-all-costs, how you have to kiss the a** of some 17 year old who never did a damn thing in his life, and turn around and kiss the a** of a 70 year old who never played a down in his life. I'm sure there's a spectrum, but I'm guessing to be a big time head football coach kind of necessitates being a not great guy because of the nature of the job description. Probably why a couple of good guys I know within the profession have no desire to be head coaches.

That said, it's his program. Whatever Zach Smith did or didn't do, he's not in jail. He's free to be employed. I don't think employing someone like that is a firable offense. But it speaks to the type of program you want to run. If Meyer is ok with that, that's his prerogative. It's not how I'd run my program, but it's not my program. I don't think it speaks to OSU fans for continuing to root for their school, nor should they feel obliged to if they don't want to. I know MSU coaches have often done things that I would not do if it was my program, most recently reinstating Reschke. But it's not my program, and absent any sort of cover up of a crime, I sort of think these guys can put whoever they want on their staff or their rosters, but then deal with whatever harm comes to their reputation for doing so. I'm long past thinking these guys are motivating by molding young men or any BS like that. They want to win football games. They are all egotistical enough to probably do just enough that it doesn't harm their legacies, but not for any sort altruistic reasons.

to a point I agree.

"Because Urban Meyer believed Zach Smith never committed domestic violence against his ex-wife, and because investigators ultimately believed that Meyer was sincere in that belief, he’s still the head football coach at Ohio State. "

I took that quote from an article on Eleven Warriors.

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2018/08/95589/ohio-states-investigation-proves-urban-meyer-made-mistakes-in-employing-zach-smith

I tend to agree with it. And it is ironic- it kind of points out that there was a reasonableness to not firing Zach over the DV accusations, and the evidence supports that. (Which is why the smugness on addressing the CS question).
It was the other stuff, the being late for practice, the running up bills in a strip club,etc- and the pattern it created, that Urban admits to not seeing clearly- and likely our of some dumb loyalty to Earle Bruce.
"
But that is not the narrative now. I think Meyer will ultimately walk away, and mostly because he will feel he does not need this, does not agree with it and will not want to deal with the constant Media mouthpieces who just need clicks, and even today are quoting misstatements about what actually was uncovered.
I would not be surprised if it happens in the next week or so.

SuperMario · « **Reply #885 on:** August 23, 2018, 11:14:52 AM »

Quote from: ELA on August 23, 2018, 10:48:37 AM

That said, it's his program. Whatever Zach Smith did or didn't do, he's not in jail. He's free to be employed. I don't think employing someone like that is a firable offense. But it speaks to the type of program you want to run. If Meyer is ok with that, that's his prerogative. It's not how I'd run my program, but it's not my program. I don't think it speaks to OSU fans for continuing to root for their school, nor should they feel obliged to if they don't want to. I know MSU coaches have often done things that I would not do if it was my program, most recently reinstating Reschke. But it's not my program, and absent any sort of cover up of a crime, I sort of think these guys can put whoever they want on their staff or their rosters, but then deal with whatever harm comes to their reputation for doing so. I'm long past thinking these guys are motivating by molding young men or any BS like that. They want to win football games. They are all egotistical enough to probably do just enough that it doesn't harm their legacies, but not for any sort altruistic reasons.

Good post. I think where it ultimately rubs people the wrong way is when guys like Urban sit on a soap box and talk down to the general public, their players and anyone that will listen about the moral code they should live by, while not adhering to any of it themselves.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #886 on:** August 23, 2018, 11:16:38 AM »

I lean to thinking Meyer was on the verge of telling them to shove it, maybe he did and got talked out of that step.

Someone, his wife?, may have said "Give it time, don't make a rash decision."

He quit at Florida as I recall and then "unquit" before he quit again. Maybe he recalls that step and didn't want to do it rashly, but perhaps after a week of contemplation, he weighs his duty to his team and his legacy and decides it's not worth it. I don't know about his physical health.

The story isn't over.

MrNubbz · « **Reply #887 on:** August 23, 2018, 11:18:21 AM »

Question to ELA or Sam - both being attorney's.Would McMurphy be libel if he accepted information if Zach Smiths Amazon account was hacked,those invoice copies? - just curious

MrNubbz · « **Reply #888 on:** August 23, 2018, 11:22:24 AM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 23, 2018, 11:07:40 AM

I think Meyer will ultimately walk away, and mostly because he will feel he does not need this, does not agree with it and will not want to deal with the constant Media mouthpieces who just need clicks, and even today are quoting misstatements about what actually was uncovered.
I would not be surprised if it happens in the next week or so.

as Cinci said he left FLA that way but I'm sure he might have walked had he not done it before.

ELA · « **Reply #889 on:** August 23, 2018, 11:31:35 AM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 23, 2018, 11:18:21 AM

Question to ELA or Sam - both being attorney's.Would McMurphy be libel if he accepted information if Zach Smiths Amazon account was hacked,those invoice copies? - just curious

I'm surprised I haven't seen the Pentagon Papers thrown out there incorrectly yet.

Most publications have internal ethics rules that use a sliding scale when it comes to that, but it's generally not based on legal obligations. Here, I would think the initial text messages (which are not at issue, but lets pretend) would be more likely to get through than the subsequent salacious but less relevant stuff. The issue is McMurphy is self-publishing for lack of a better word, so that's not really an issue.

Legally? Generally it's a three part test, but courts have gone very narrow and very wide on it. 1. Outlet played no role in the illegal gathering; 2. the means by which they obtained the info was legal; and 3. the level of public concern regarding the information. I think #3 is the biggest issue to overcome any 1st amendment challenge made by McMurphy. Again, had it been the initial texts, stronger case. The case is what Meyer knew, not how much of a jag Smith was. The other issue, is how much of the public concern are sports period? As important as the Meyer angle is, in the grand scheme of things we are talking about the eomployment status of someone in the entertainment industry. I think when that person is (I assume) also the highest paid state employee, that makes it part of the public concern. I imagine any argument made by McMurphy across any of this is Meyer's status as the highest paid state employee, makes all of this a matter of high public concern.

A guy Ohioans know well, may be the best test case, John Boehner. There a Democratic rival secretly and unlawfully taped Boehner speaking about ethics violations of Newt Gingrich, then leaked them to the press. The media had no involvement in creating the tapes, nor was there acquisition of them from McDermott illegal, but they knew from the material presented that it not been obtained lawfully. The ruling was that it was a crime committed by McDermott in making the tapes, but no liability on the media for releasing them, even though they knew they were unlawfully obtained.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #890 on:** August 23, 2018, 11:36:03 AM »

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...ban-meyer/

I only cite that as one of a zillion examples of similar pillorying of Ohio State. If the objective of the BoT and President was to handle this openly and fairly so as to avoid damaging media attention, they failed badly on the last part.

This easily could get worse.

ELA · « **Reply #891 on:** August 23, 2018, 11:38:03 AM »

Heh, when I saw this thread started I almost merged it with the OSU Offseason thread because I thought it would amount to so much nothing that it didn't even warrant it's own thread.

Entropy · « **Reply #892 on:** August 23, 2018, 11:43:53 AM »

Quote from: TyphonInc on August 23, 2018, 10:33:21 AM

A discount on tattoos, he was suspended 5 games for receiving a discount on tattoos. Trading a gold trinket for a lower price on a tattoo, was a privilege gained by being a football player that wasn't extended to non-student athletes.
That's apples to oranges comparison though.
More apt would be comparing this to Tressel getting fired for signing a form stating he was unaware of any infractions being committed by his team.

perhaps it is just my perspective on the world... but discounted tattoos seems better than ignoring what Smith did. It was more of a statement of how messed up we are in our priorities.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #893 on:** August 23, 2018, 11:56:09 AM »

It's not a matter of what's better or worse but what is encoded in the "law".

Entropy · « **Reply #894 on:** August 23, 2018, 12:06:55 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 23, 2018, 11:56:09 AM

It's not a matter of what's better or worse but what is encoded in the "law".

But it should be.. if the "law" is that broken, perhaps it is time to fix. Discounts = 5 games. Hiding an abuser, lying and ignoring you're own philosophy on behaviors towards women = less

Hoss · « **Reply #895 on:** August 23, 2018, 12:11:31 PM »

Quote from: Entropy on August 23, 2018, 12:06:55 PM

But it should be.. if the "law" is that broken, perhaps it is time to fix. Discounts = 5 games. Hiding an abuser, lying and ignoring you're own philosophy on behaviors towards women = less

The alternative- having the NCAA govern this sort of issue- is far worse than accepting that there is a degree of ludicrousness to comparing it with bylaw infractions.

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Topic: Is Urby In Trouble Here?

MaximumSam

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FearlessF

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Honestbuckeye

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SuperMario

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Cincydawg

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MrNubbz

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MrNubbz

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ELA

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Cincydawg

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ELA

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Entropy

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Cincydawg

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Entropy

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Hoss

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