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Topic: Is Urby In Trouble Here?

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #770 on: August 22, 2018, 05:59:22 PM »
Just keep an eye on the Beer Bwarb
Nah, Sark ain't on staff any more...

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #771 on: August 22, 2018, 05:59:38 PM »
Ha, I guess I don't need to post anymore. I just need to wait until you telepathically contribute my thoughts.
Anyway, I think I've been pretty consistent that the most important aspect of a university is the academic sector, not the athletic one. I probably lean even moreso on that for Michigan than other schools. And were a President of a university to step down because he feels his authority had been subverted by the power of sports ...
Well, that'd be such an unprecedented and dark stain that the academic reputation of a university might never recover.
Or- if the evidence Supports the fact that the head football coach did nothing wrong and could not have done more but the president wants to punish him anyway for the sake of optics and the strange environment our country is in right now, then I don’t need to have telepathy to understand your take. You’re taking has been consistent, it’s been anti-urban Meyer from the very beginning and remain so now
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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MrNubbz

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #772 on: August 22, 2018, 06:01:54 PM »
Nah, Sark ain't on staff any more...
St Nick likes the finer things - just a heads up
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #773 on: August 22, 2018, 06:07:48 PM »
Or- if the evidence Supports the fact that the head football coach did nothing wrong and could not have done more but the president wants to punish him anyway for the sake of optics and the strange environment our country is in right now, then I don’t need to have telepathy to understand your take. You’re taking has been consistent, it’s been anti-urban Meyer from the very beginning and remain so now
If those were the precise facts (if the president is balking at Meyer without evidence, wishing to punish him for truly zero reason), then yeah, it'd would be "the best possible outcome" for OSU to just let that president step down.
But let's spell out that scenario: That would mean that OSU hired a poor and unreasonable president. And the outside world would either look upon that detail with negativity or miss that nuance and STILL look upon it (as if sports subverted absolute university authority) with disdain. And the university's reputation would suffer, again, perhaps, irrevocably.
P.S. I'm not predicting this will happen. I'm just specifying that if Drake walks away, that is waaaaaay worse than Meyer walking away for Ohio State, the University.
P.P.S. Drake has a really positive reputation. The odds of your "Or if" scenario aren't good -- that he's standing up to Meyer for truly zero reason.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 06:26:49 PM by Anonymous Coward »

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #774 on: August 22, 2018, 06:08:03 PM »
Here's my take. I've largely dropped off this thread since Urban's public statement that he reported everything he needed to report.

My guess is that Courtney and Zach had major problems... And that neither of them were exactly clean. And that every time that something happened, the police couldn't basically make heads or tails of it, so Zach was never arrested and when Urban looked at it, he couldn't necessarily say that it was Zach's fault--and I'm sure Zach was telling him all the bad things she did.

This probably came to a head with the incidents in late 2015... Which didn't end up with arrests or charges filed. But it did end up with divorce proceedings.

I still think the way it shook out is that the 2015 allegations probably would have been enough to get rid of him, but the divorce largely "kicked the can" in the sense that if Urban believed Courtney was a big part of the problem, that the divorce would at least put that problem to rest. The risk drops significantly if they're not continuing to be married, right?

But the May 2018 criminal trespass and the protective order forced their hand. Obviously that meant that they couldn't have an amicable divorce, so the problems that should have gone away due to divorce were still raging.

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #775 on: August 22, 2018, 06:11:40 PM »
Here's my take. I've largely dropped off this thread since Urban's public statement that he reported everything he needed to report.

My guess is that Courtney and Zach had major problems... And that neither of them were exactly clean. And that every time that something happened, the police couldn't basically make heads or tails of it, so Zach was never arrested and when Urban looked at it, he couldn't necessarily say that it was Zach's fault--and I'm sure Zach was telling him all the bad things she did.

This probably came to a head with the incidents in late 2015... Which didn't end up with arrests or charges filed. But it did end up with divorce proceedings.

I still think the way it shook out is that the 2015 allegations probably would have been enough to get rid of him, but the divorce largely "kicked the can" in the sense that if Urban believed Courtney was a big part of the problem, that the divorce would at least put that problem to rest. The risk drops significantly if they're not continuing to be married, right?

But the May 2018 criminal trespass and the protective order forced their hand. Obviously that meant that they couldn't have an amicable divorce, so the problems that should have gone away due to divorce were still raging.
That's very similar to my sense, too.

MrNubbz

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #776 on: August 22, 2018, 06:21:57 PM »
Good take Bwarb - IMO,the saving grace was that Meyer kept his former friends in money as long as he could.And contractually did the right thing,But I think Meyer never had to report up because Zach had already told Gene Smith.But I agree that the University should not show favor to a coach over it's president.If Meyer can't take a couple games then he doesn't give a shit about the university.Just because he totally faffed the media days presser he should pay them back for that
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

SuperMario

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #777 on: August 22, 2018, 06:27:57 PM »
Interesting update:

Apparently some believe that drake is pushing for the suspension because he fears other shoes may drop after the decision. Again, I have nothing factual to back this outside of a friend that has a friend that's a VP at a radio stations with connections. FWIW.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #778 on: August 22, 2018, 06:33:55 PM »
If those were the precise facts (if the president is balking at Meyer without evidence, wishing to punish him for truly zero reason), then yeah, it'd would be "the best possible outcome" for OSU to just let that president step down.
But let's spell out that scenario: That would mean that OSU hired a poor and unreasonable president. And the outside world would either look upon that detail with negativity or miss that nuance and STILL look upon it (as if sports subverted absolute university authority) with disdain. And the university's reputation would suffer, again, perhaps, irrevocably.
P.S. I'm not predicting this will happen. I'm just specifying that if Drake walks away, that is waaaaaay worse than Meyer walking away for Ohio State, the University.
P.P.S. Drake has a really positive reputation. The odds of your "Or if" scenario aren't good -- that he's standing up to Meyer for truly zero reason.
On this, we can agree.  Drake has a great reputation and I agree, losing him would be worse both optically, and in real terms.
I also tend to sense BWARBs post above as well as Nubbz.
If this is all true, then Meyer should just swallow his pride. He did a horrible job at Big Ten Media days.  My guess is, he feels like he told the truth, but in a deceptive way, which he apologized for.  He was answering that question specifically to address that the incident was not an arrest.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #779 on: August 22, 2018, 06:45:40 PM »
Where I'm at now:

  • Still in the dark. Ya know: We haven't learned any new details about the history. But the odds have shifted just based on the reported attitudes at today's meeting.
  • I now think it is very probably wrong to fire Urban.
  • It now seems more likely than before that he deserves no punishment - maybe even an apology.
  • Also, whereas I used to think a suspension was super unlikely (i.e., "nonsensical" because either he violated his contract or he didn't, what's the point of an in-between?), now it seems somewhat more reasonable. Contractually it is still pretty nonsensical to go to suspension. But in terms of deflecting residual bad P.R. and staying protected if more bad news breaks, it suddenly seems like a good game theory option with few downsides if the suspension ends before TCU.
  • Expecting the report will be generally low-key and boring, perhaps with sparse things that read as uncomfortable but would be difficult to lead through for Meyer and readily forgivable
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 06:47:47 PM by Anonymous Coward »

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #780 on: August 22, 2018, 06:57:18 PM »
Good take Bwarb - IMO,the saving grace was that Meyer kept his former friends in money as long as he could.And contractually did the right thing,But I think Meyer never had to report up because Zach had already told Gene Smith.But I agree that the University should not show favor to a coach over it's president.If Meyer can't take a couple games then he doesn't give a shit about the university.Just because he totally faffed the media days presser he should pay them back for that
I should be clear that my assumptions are NOT that Urban made any of these decisions in a vacuum. I'm essentially taking him at his word that he reported up anything he should have.
My guess is that with the HR/Title IX people they kicked the can because of the divorce. But that this wasn't Urban's decision, it was a group decision. Otherwise, if he just made these decisions on his own, that likely violates his reporting requirements.
That said, why should he take a suspension if he hasn't done anything which violates his contract requirements? After all, he's already in some ways "served time" by being barred from doing his job for several weeks of fall practice. Why should he take an additional suspension, tarnishing his own reputation further because accepting the suspension is an implicit assumption of guilt.

Riffraft

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #781 on: August 22, 2018, 06:58:10 PM »
Go back and notice the word "alleged." If you did notice it but didn't care, then ... neat for you.
To be accused of multiple instances (rumors) of domestic violence is to allegedly be a serial abuser. There's plenty in this conversation that is up for debate. But if someone debates this one, that person is disagreeing with dictionaries.
So being an alleged serial abuser is enough to fire him? So if I can get someone to allege something against you and I can present rumors that allege something about you. You should be fired.
Again, one instance in 2009. 

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #782 on: August 22, 2018, 07:41:20 PM »
So being an alleged serial abuser is enough to fire him? So if I can get someone to allege something against you and I can present rumors that allege something about you. You should be fired.
Again, one instance in 2009.
Yes, 2009 was an anchor that changed Zach's life forever. In terms of lawful termination, that went a long way to losing him the benefit of the doubt.
From that event/arrest forward, any rumor of domestic violence, even the unsubstantiated, has to be treated maximally seriously, investigated each time. Now let's speculate that all such rumors are always deeply investigated and always remain unsubstantiated. Even then, if recurring rumors are frequent enough that they become a distraction, that could be enough to fire him. If the follow-up rumors are frequent or dark enough to become a PR liability, then again that's enough to fire him.
Places of work aren't courts of law. And administrator inconvenience, colleague discomfort and an institution's risk of lost reputation in the face of "alleged serial abuse" legitimize any termination.
Meanwhile: You know what would also absolve OSU of that risk? The fact that Zach wasn't a good football coach. What else? His DUI. His belligerent twitter persona. That he photographed his genitalia during team activities and had a sexual relationship with an OSU football subordinate.
So yeah, even if the entire nation flips and sides with Meyer's handling (and we all may), there's insufficient reason to conclude Zach Smith got a raw deal. That, looking back, boy did he obviously deserve to keep that job.
Job wise, Zach Smith made approximately one squillion fatal errors.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 07:44:24 PM by Anonymous Coward »

Cincydawg

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #783 on: August 22, 2018, 08:04:56 PM »
The longer this lasts, the worse any outcome will be for OSU.


 

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