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Topic: Is Urby In Trouble Here?

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Anonymous Coward

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #462 on: August 08, 2018, 02:26:46 PM »
Not trying to justify not reporting (if he didn't), but all of those terms are in the context of Sexual Misconduct. Maybe I am not informed as to where domestic violence falls under, but I won't think it falls under Sexual misconduct.
I think the unifying tie is that they are examples of abuse between genders. And DV clearly fits there. If I'm mistaken, then what would "Intimate Violence" mean instead that also isn't already covered under the other items listed (harassment, assault, eploitation, stalking)?

SuperMario

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #463 on: August 08, 2018, 03:10:27 PM »

He confirmed what I suspected all along- that when Meyer answered that fateful question about the 2015 incident- at Big Ten Media days, he was specifically referring to the just released info that Smith was arrested for a felony DV.  


Did you listen/watch the media day and question that's debated? I don't know how anyone can come to that conclusion after watching it. He absolutely is referencing the 2015 incident. He has 3 sections of his response. Section 1) the 2009 incident. Section 2) the 2015 incident and section 3) the most recent incident. It's clear there is a difference because he transitions by saying  " and then this recent one.."
The question: 
Urban, you said earlier that you were aware of the incident with Zach in 2009. Your inquiry into 2015 was unfounded. You couldn’t find anything. Why fire Zack now if you kept him on staff after 2009?


He talks about the 2009 incident and his relationship with the family and young marriage and then talks about 2015 and says this:

Answer:
“…2015, I got a text late last night that something happened in 2015 and uh there was nothing and unless, once again there’s nothing. Once again, I don’t know who creates a story like that. And then this recent one…..

Youtube Video of Presser


I'm not saying this is an offense he should be fired for, but can we please stop trying to cover up for the guy for blatantly lying at this presser? The guy lied and got caught. I'm sure we've all been there, but what the guy said was dishonest.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #464 on: August 08, 2018, 05:34:29 PM »
Did you listen/watch the media day and question that's debated? I don't know how anyone can come to that conclusion after watching it. He absolutely is referencing the 2015 incident. He has 3 sections of his response. Section 1) the 2009 incident. Section 2) the 2015 incident and section 3) the most recent incident. It's clear there is a difference because he transitions by saying  " and then this recent one.."
The question:
Urban, you said earlier that you were aware of the incident with Zach in 2009. Your inquiry into 2015 was unfounded. You couldn’t find anything. Why fire Zack now if you kept him on staff after 2009?


He talks about the 2009 incident and his relationship with the family and young marriage and then talks about 2015 and says this:

Answer:
“…2015, I got a text late last night that something happened in 2015 and uh there was nothing and unless, once again there’s nothing. Once again, I don’t know who creates a story like that. And then this recent one…..

Youtube Video of Presser

I have seen it 1000 times. So let me get this straight: you believe that he was asked by several reporters on his way to that conference about 2015 and he openly acknowledged it and further declared that when he investigated it there was nothing there. But then he turned around and went ask the same question he was saying that he was not aware of it? So you think he thought the reporters he gave a different answer to just before that we’re going to keep it quiet? Give me a break  I have seen it 1000 times. So let me get this straight: you believe that he was asked by several reporters on his way to that conference about 2015 and he openly acknowledged it in further declared that when he investigated it there was nothing there. But then he turned around and went asked the same question he was saying that he was not aware of it? So you think he thought the reporters he gave a different answer to just before that we’re going to keep it quiet? Give me a break.   
I clearly disagree with you and feel he was obviously answering the question from the wrong angle and gave him miss leading answer but thought he was telling the truth by seeing the same answer he gave the other reporters which was that what informed that the 2015 incident was now being reported as a arrest for a felony he basically said there was nothing there. That’s why if you read his Friday press release he does not say I lied, he says it’s my job to give accurate and sensitive information that’s not deceiving and I failed on all counts.  
 I clearly disagree with you and feel he was obviously answering the question from the wrong angle and gave a miss leading answer but thought he was telling the truth by saying the same answer he gave the other reporters which was that when informed that the 2015 incident was now being reported as a arrest for a felony he basically said there was nothing there. That’s why if you read his Friday press release he does not say I lied, he says it’s my job to give accurate and sensitive information that’s not deceiving and I feel on all counts 



I'm not saying this is an offense he should be fired for, but can we please stop trying to cover up for the guy for blatantly lying at this presser? The guy lied and got caught. I'm sure we've all been there, but what the guy said was dishonest.

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

ohio1317

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #465 on: August 08, 2018, 09:05:21 PM »
I think odds are increasing Urban is coming back.  Odds on an OSU championship dropped somewhat with all this news, but has now risen back up.  Not sure if this exactly where started but can't be too far off.  Not that a bad season would be expected with Day, but think going back closer to old levels suggest the Vegas money think Urban Meyer is coming back.

I also kind of agree a suspension in someway actually most risky option.  If they conclude Urban did nothing wrong but lie at media day, story will die down (not disappear, but die down).  Suspending him admits something wrong and leaves issue alive longer and subjects more scrutiny for not firing.  It is actually easier to argue followed things correctly or fire and say no choice than taking middle approach.

MarqHusker

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #466 on: August 09, 2018, 12:37:00 AM »
I think the unifying tie is that they are examples of abuse between genders. And DV clearly fits there. If I'm mistaken, then what would "Intimate Violence" mean instead that also isn't already covered under the other items listed (harassment, assault, eploitation, stalking)?
I'll admit that this is a tedious thing to argue on a message board(civilly of course) but this is a legitimate contract law(breach) issue that would absolutely be challenged by a coach who has their contract voided under this provision for failure to report, what presently, (since none of us have seen the police reports (have we? I'm not following day to day) to evaluate the real time environment of the abuse) does not appear to be misconduct of a sexual nature.   My own ten second analysis of this excerpt suggests the provision is borne out of a specific Title IX (a law) policy that appears to be specifically related to sexual misconduct.  Not all violence against a person could possibly be considered intimate violence. Unless a court has found that any violence against a spouse or partner qualifies as intimate violence. I don't know the answer to that.
hypothetical:  If the abuse occurred at a public place, say a bar.  Sexual misconduct? Intimate violence?  
If the abuse occurred in the home, but say in the living room, kitchen. Sexual misconduct? Intimate violence?
In the bedroom, but not during moments of intimacy consensual or otherwise?
Put another way,  what else is Meyer required to report?  Knowledge of fraud? Theft? assaults of a non-sexual nature? Duty to report or disclose X are in every contract I ever draft/read or execute.  They aren't always read broadly.
The short version:  In a pure contract law sense, I don't think this provision demonstrates an iron clad duty to report all types of violent misconduct, just those defined above.  Perhaps there's dispositive case law on the matter. I don't know.  Again this only addresses whether or not Ohio State can void his contract, not whether Meyer should have done X, or didn't do X.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #467 on: August 09, 2018, 07:57:47 AM »
I also kind of agree a suspension in someway actually most risky option.  If they conclude Urban did nothing wrong but lie at media day, story will die down (not disappear, but die down).  Suspending him admits something wrong and leaves issue alive longer and subjects more scrutiny for not firing.  It is actually easier to argue followed things correctly or fire and say no choice than taking middle approach.
I hadn't really thought of this, but now that you point it out, I agree.  The most clear-cut and least risky positions for the school to take are either:
  • HC Urban appropriately reported and cannot be fired for cause, he is reinstated upon conclusion of investigation, or
  • HC Urban failed to report appropriately and can be fired for cause, he is terminated upon conclusion of investigation.  
I frankly think that the Ohio State University has done a very good job of handling the fallout from this (not speaking to how they got here, just what they have done since the story broke) and that they will continue that trend by doing one of the two things you suggested.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #468 on: August 09, 2018, 08:01:30 AM »
I'm not saying this is an offense he should be fired for, but can we please stop trying to cover up for the guy for blatantly lying at this presser? The guy lied and got caught. I'm sure we've all been there, but what the guy said was dishonest.
In the presser at B1G Media days Urban's answer was, at the least, definitely misleading.  That said, if we start firing coaches for lying to the media we'll run out of coaches pretty quickly.  Ie, what I am saying is that I really don't care if my coach or anybody else's coach is less than 100% forthcoming with the media.  
From a PR perspective it is rather surprising that Urban didn't have a prepared answer for this along the lines of what @Roaddawg suggested upthread (something like "I am here to talk about the upcoming football season and am unable to comment on those issues at this time.")

Cincydawg

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #469 on: August 09, 2018, 09:21:50 AM »
Saw something about betting odds on this that he was favored not to be fired but to be suspended X number of games.

Suspended but not fired is a bit weird to me, kind of "Well you messed up but not too bad" I suppose.

That would leave OSU open to a lot of criticism, warranted or not, the usual claims of course.

If in fact he did mess up but only a little bit, whatever that means, I'd fine him and send the money to some charity I think.

SuperMario

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #470 on: August 09, 2018, 11:16:58 AM »
In the presser at B1G Media days Urban's answer was, at the least, definitely misleading.  That said, if we start firing coaches for lying to the media we'll run out of coaches pretty quickly.  Ie, what I am saying is that I really don't care if my coach or anybody else's coach is less than 100% forthcoming with the media.  

That’s a slippery slope. It really depends what the topic is. If we’re talking about coaches giving lip service because they’re required to answer media questions, then I completely agree. If we talking about a somewhat serious topic like abuse, it’s tough pill to swallow that it’s ok to mislead the media.
Again, this is not a fireable offense. That decision should solely be made on how reporting was handled, whixh I don’t believe any of us know. I think OSU has handled the post-fallout very well. 

Roaddawg

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #471 on: August 09, 2018, 12:38:45 PM »
That’s a slippery slope. It really depends what the topic is. If we’re talking about coaches giving lip service because they’re required to answer media questions, then I completely agree. If we talking about a somewhat serious topic like abuse, it’s tough pill to swallow that it’s ok to mislead the media.
Again, this is not a fireable offense. That decision should solely be made on how reporting was handled, whixh I don’t believe any of us know. I think OSU has handled the post-fallout very well.
I don't think it matters the topic, in fact, I would say the deeper the topic the less you give, keeping it boring is a great way to avoid a lot of issues and media fall out.  Most coaches can not do that because of ego or whatever, but those who have mastered that art, seem to be around for a long long time and often are not the focus of the media's venom or hype.  I present Bill Bellichick as a prime example, compared to a guy like Rex Ryan.  Or in college, a guy like Mike Leach compared to a Bill Snyder.  Mike Leach and Rex Ryan where both great to watch in interviews because you never knew what was going to come out their mouth.  Billichick, much like Tressel, are as much fun to listen to in an interview as it is to watch paint dry.
 Me personally, I never mastered the art of dealing with the media or others in that skilled manner, I am to much of a black and white, say like it is and move on, with a little gray area type of person, hence why I was never asked to do public information speaking during my career!  ;)

MrNubbz

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #472 on: August 09, 2018, 08:54:35 PM »
https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2018/08/courtney_smiths_mother_zach_sm.html

Appears Courtney's mother and mother in law aren't as smitten with her story as McMurphy
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 09:01:18 PM by MrNubbz »
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

Hawkinole

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #473 on: August 10, 2018, 01:18:35 AM »
I have not read all 16 pages of this thread, in fact, I am late to the dance, and underprepared.

I suspect the thread should have been retitled about 8-pages ago, and the discussion should center on, "Is Gene Smith in trouble, here?"

And even then, the assistant coach and his wife seem to have had an at times explosive relationship. He makes good money. She probably doesn't want him charged because that hurts her as much as him. What is an institution to do? Blow the whistle on both when neither wants a formal complaint? I haven't read it thoroughly, but I am a lawyer who does some criminal defense. Domestic abuse often involves two parties going at it, unfortunately; it is difficult to prove. In a more populace neighboring county court administration told me that for domestic abuse trials the acquittal rate was around 90%. I attribute that to defense counsel knowing which cases to try. I am, as all of us are, acquainted with human nature, and economic interest. There is a reason this was not in the spotlight before, and inquiry into that subject should be just as keen as it is into Urban Meyer's somewhat tangential involvement.

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #474 on: August 10, 2018, 02:15:38 AM »
https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2018/08/courtney_smiths_mother_zach_sm.html

Appears Courtney's mother and mother in law aren't as smitten with her story as McMurphy
Who is Jeff Snook and why is he also doing all of his reporting on Facebook? 
McMurphy has no choice. Social media is the only option available under the noncompete clause of his ESPN contract.

MaximumSam

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #475 on: August 10, 2018, 07:03:31 AM »
Who is Jeff Snook and why is he also doing all of his reporting on Facebook?
McMurphy has no choice. Social media is the only option available under the noncompete clause of his ESPN contract.
I think he mostly writes college football books.  I wonder if this thing kicks off a new wave of independent journalism.

 

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