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Topic: Is Urby In Trouble Here?

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ALA2262

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #210 on: August 03, 2018, 12:28:31 AM »
So how long until Urban finds himself on Nick Saban's staff?
Urban just became 'Next HC at ND'. Or LSU.

bayareabadger

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #211 on: August 03, 2018, 06:30:54 AM »
I've never seen a case charged based on a sense of conviction. (no offense to the remark) Going to trial? Now that requires the DA to look at the case again and evaluate the stakes.  It is quite embarrassing, unethical  and damaging to a DA's office to charge people with crimes which can't get past go.  Go=probable cause.  You only charge when you have PC.  You don't have it (even with a sense of guilt by the defendant) you gotta go get it.
Once a person is arrested (and in custody), that person must be brought before a judge or magistrate within 48 hours.  At that point the State must produce a criminal complaint demonstrating there is a probable cause that the charging crime was committed (must identify the criminal statute) AND probable cause that it was committed by the defendant.  This is typically presented on a few pages, describes the who what when and where, and it must be signed by some sworn official (usually a law enforcement officer, or prosecutor (sometimes a game warden).  If they can't do this, the person is released from custody immediately.   If State can get to this stage later, they can summon the person, or issue an arrest warrant. (This is common in DV, when a victim comes forward a day or few days later).
It is at this time the person is read the charges, right to atty, etc.  Then bail is determined.  A case like this, probably not cash bail, but certainly all kinds of no contact conditions.   Defendant signs signature bond, leaves, comes back for next appearance (arraignment), where they formally plead NG (usually).  In between Bail Hearing and Arraignment, this is the likeliest time the Defendant and DA discuss any plea bargain, if any is offered.   This is also when the DA typically learns whether or not the Victim is A. reliable, and B. going to testify.   You can count on the Defendant telling his/her lawyer,  'she ain't going to talk'.   Again, defense counsel stressed on this point too.  Who's for real?
Plea bargains in DV and OWI cases are extremely closely examined by DAs office, every women's group in the public,  MAAD, etc.   In any other non-violent crime,  yes, plea bargains are valuable tools of efficiency, supported by both sides of the bar, and the courts.   What are you really pleading 'down' to, when you have a unreliable witness in a misdemeanor battery case.  Criminal Disorderly Conduct is a 'fav' of the State.  
#For sake of discussion, let's assume the charges are misdemeanor, and not felonies (which would require either an indictment by a grand jury (filing of an 'Information')  or a preliminary hearing (a mini probable cause hearing).  That's where a defendant could very well be 'in custody' because there's cash bail which they can't post, for an extended period of time, but of course, they could exercise their right to a speedy trial.  That means the Preliminary Hearing has to take place in 10 days, with trail to follow 20 days later.  Majority of DV cases are charged as simple battery.   Substantial battery (felony assault) would bring all of this into play.  A plea bargain at this level, is incredibly scrutinized, only signed off on by Deputy or above, and usually not w/o full support of the Victim Witness Coordinator.  
Tips cap and defers to the expert. 

Temp430

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #212 on: August 03, 2018, 07:12:13 AM »
Some information or disinformation about the victim is getting out there that makes her sound bat sh!t crazy.   Not sure how The OSU is going to handle it but it's going to take a while.  Like weeks if not months.  
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MaximumSam

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #213 on: August 03, 2018, 07:16:25 AM »
Some information or disinformation about the victim is getting out there that makes her sound bat sh!t crazy.   Not sure how The OSU is going to handle it but it's going to take a while.  Like weeks if not months.  
I'm highly, highly, skeptical of these claims.

bayareabadger

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #214 on: August 03, 2018, 07:22:51 AM »
Though it’s objectively good to be nice to people – or at the very least to not be actively offensive – political correctness will never be a practical way to fix this about the world because its spirit of scolding is egotistical and off-putting, making it right for the wrong reason, which naturally causes the objects of its scolding to double down.
We deserve a more humble formula than “HOW DARE YOU, and now that I’ve stolen your attention, guess who also knows the best way for you to live?” Because even if the person saying HOW DARE YOU is correct about something that really matters, their style comprehensively fails. (...) Turns out that "It's not what you say but how you say it" wasn't just a lesson for toddlers.
Unfortunately, the schism between these two sides has become one of the most entrenched aspects of modern western identity and has fueled a sizable chunk of our current volatilty. And tragically, these fights that seem so meaty and essential are usually empty. I.E.: there are good people on the non-PC side who aren't being offensive for offensiveness's sake but rather to spite the PCers for thinking they had the right to be so sanctimonious about anything in the first place.
As for me, I'll admit I lean progressive on most matters, but I see PCness as a sickness and believe that finding a more patient and non-judgy way to express that "being a dick is fine if you're into that but actually, man, just try not to" is one of the most important upcoming social revolutions.
I think we’re at a point where it’s sometimes hard to get a handle on exactly what PC means anymore. At best, it’s sort of a frenzied call to action/shaming oft attributed vaguely to one part of the political spectrum (trying to avoid full-on politics, should delete if I stray)
At it’s historical root, it seems like a brand of seeing the world, usually trying to see it for the better and not trying to hurt others (maybe certain others?), but delivered in a holier than thou way. The opposite not-PC was something to be indulged in, mirthfullness about the world that was somehow self-satisfying. 
But the thing is, everyone has feelings and gets offended about different things. There’s certainly some stuff that is objectively “politically correct” that some “un-PC” folks will get very offended by. Hopefully we find a way to turn down the vitriol. (Lord knows, sports fans are among the most finely sensitive humans imaginable. We’re all not that different)
Now let’s turn to this case: what’s PC here is ... at its root what? Is it the idea that hitting a women and supporting is so explosive it should cost people dearly?(probably not based on that wall at OSU) Is it the believing the woman at all at face value? Or is it the speed and the way it turns to 11 so fast? I suppose the root would be that believing someone who says they got hit is “PC” and the un-PC thing would be to ask, are there a lot of women who fabricate these things? 
Or is it that PC has become a catchall for a kind of frenzy that links to a sort of vague sense of impropriety?

Temp430

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #215 on: August 03, 2018, 07:26:11 AM »
PCness has become a political crowbar.  Maybe it always was.
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bayareabadger

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #216 on: August 03, 2018, 07:32:47 AM »
PCness has become a political crowbar.  Maybe it always was.
The weird part is un-PCness has evolved into a far more effective one. 

MrNubbz

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #217 on: August 03, 2018, 07:54:37 AM »
I'm convinced of 3 things after flipping back/forth between ESPN & BTN.Shelly Meyer will be fired/step down from her position at tOSU - if indeed it was her that had theses pictures(unless she reported up).And for 9 years on/off MRS Smith didn't come forward until her ex loses their income - then she talks to a blog.Going to the police straight up 5 years ago prolly helps her case & credibility.Is she a victim - yes,was she forthcoming - no.Wonder if she went to the hospital after that bloody hand incident.If Urbz reported none of this up they should be wrapping up the details of his departure right now
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #218 on: August 03, 2018, 07:59:11 AM »
It’s a bit disingenuous to say we have one side of the story with the text messages and pictures, unless you believe they are made up. Urban’s wife, the Director of Football Ops wife all allude to the disgusting behavior of an absuive spouse, on top of those text messages stating it’s a known thing amongst the coaches. Heck, Zach smith’s own text even acknowledged it by saying he had sought treatment for it, followed by saying he would destroy her.

Urban knew. Just last week at media days he said he and his wife discuss everything. He brought her to help counsel Smith and his wife while in Florida for the 09 issues. Should we also ignore the Cleveland paper noting the multiple times police came to the home.

That is one persistent scheme by a spouse with no real end game, until now. Courtney dragged the family through a 9!! year conspiratorial plot to bring her husband through the mud just now. All in the name of losing the income source for her and her family. I have trouble reconciling that.

And to push the no charges thing after all we have elarn d about domestic violence is sad. I wonder why the wife of coaching legends grandson, in a football crazed town wouldn’t pursue a very public court process? Note, he is the sole income earner for the family at $400+k a year. Take a look at the comments about her photos on brett mcmurpjy’s Facebook page and tell me why she wouldn’t have reported sooner.


https://twitter.com/slmandel/status/1024703004849532928?s=12

Let’s not lose site of who the abuser was (Zach Smith) but a lot of individuals are to blame for where this has landed in the last week.
Disingenuous?    I find that point of view more than a little bit troubling  
I don’t know of anybody who is questioning whether Zack Smith physically abused his wife.  
But to say that his boss should be fired for without knowing whether he reported it to his superiors, what he knew and when he knew it, well that’s just ridiculous  
If you watch the tape of her interview around 11 minute mark you’ll notice that she admitted that for a very long time she did not share the physical part of the booths with anybody because she was embarrassed and I understand that sentiment. But wouldn’t you like to know at what point did she exactly review the physical abuse part of it? And would you like to know what the police told Ohio State authorities when they investigated that incident? Wouldn’t you like to know if they’re feeling was No presumption of guilt based on the evidence and they were not willing to press charges even if she was? And wouldn’t you like to know at what point did Meyers wife reveal things to him? And then wouldn’t you like to know what he did or did not do about it? Are those not fair and reasonable questions to ask on behalf of a person who did not directly do anything wrong but whose life and career could go down in flames?
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Anonymous Coward

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #219 on: August 03, 2018, 08:21:13 AM »
That's right. Everything hinges on whether Meyer reported up. I might add one more caveat, though, and that is if he didn't report up because he says he never knew**, then that wouldn't clear his responsibility either, because it was his job to know things like this.

**(this is probably just a silly 0.01% scenario, since none of us seem to be able to fathom how he wouldn't know)

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #220 on: August 03, 2018, 08:30:42 AM »
That's right. Everything hinges on whether Meyer reported up. I might add one more caveat, though, and that is if he didn't report up because he says he never knew**, then that wouldn't clear his responsibility either, because it was his job to know things like this.

**(this is probably just a silly 0.01% scenario, since none of us seem to be able to fathom how he wouldn't know)
Well said. I would further add the question of “what” he knew- so in other words, how much things were filtered to him.  
If things were kept from him or watered down, I would feel like not only is he accountable for creating or allowing that culture- but potentially some other coaches or administration should be held accountable as well.  
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MrNubbz

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #221 on: August 03, 2018, 08:35:55 AM »
 
If you watch the tape of her interview around 11 minute mark you’ll notice that she admitted that for a very long time she did not share the physical part of the booths with anybody because she was embarrassed and I understand that sentiment.
At the 11 minute mark she also contradicts herself as she sure as shit shared it with Shelley Meyer(pictures,texts).She put financial stability in front of the best interests of her children both emotionally/physically.
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Anonymous Coward

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #222 on: August 03, 2018, 08:42:19 AM »
I think we’re at a point where it’s sometimes hard to get a handle on exactly what PC means anymore. At best, it’s sort of a frenzied call to action/shaming oft attributed vaguely to one part of the political spectrum (trying to avoid full-on politics, should delete if I stray)
At it’s historical root, it seems like a brand of seeing the world, usually trying to see it for the better and not trying to hurt others (maybe certain others?), but delivered in a holier than thou way. The opposite not-PC was something to be indulged in, mirthfullness about the world that was somehow self-satisfying.
But the thing is, everyone has feelings and gets offended about different things. There’s certainly some stuff that is objectively “politically correct” that some “un-PC” folks will get very offended by. Hopefully we find a way to turn down the vitriol. (Lord knows, sports fans are among the most finely sensitive humans imaginable. We’re all not that different)
Now let’s turn to this case: what’s PC here is ... at its root what? Is it the idea that hitting a women and supporting is so explosive it should cost people dearly?(probably not based on that wall at OSU) Is it the believing the woman at all at face value? Or is it the speed and the way it turns to 11 so fast? I suppose the root would be that believing someone who says they got hit is “PC” and the un-PC thing would be to ask, are there a lot of women who fabricate these things?
Or is it that PC has become a catchall for a kind of frenzy that links to a sort of vague sense of impropriety?
It's a fair and standing question. 
Trying to distill it into something that is broadly consistent here: To me, PCness is any reaction that notices some disappointing or hurtful social habit and can't help but respond as holier-than-thou. It's probably seen as almost exclusively belonging to the left. But I like the definition to be broader to emphasize that the entire problem is the sanctimony ... and arrogance isnt restricted to either pole of the political spectrum.
As for this specific case, I suppose my definition would say that what is PC about it is:
(a) even when we don't have enough facts to *know* the woman is being honest, to acknowledge when the claim of DV is credible and recognize that because this is a pressure point, women in these situations often have their credibility targeted without merit
(b) and then the holier-than-thouness ramps the noise on this to 11 reeeeally fast.
But option A is probably interchangeable. It's probably also in the PC category to say that:
(a) harboring or ignoring a serial abuser damages communities and in either case is the leader's fault
(b) and then the holier-than-thouness demands a scalp
« Last Edit: August 03, 2018, 08:47:31 AM by Anonymous Coward »

847badgerfan

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #223 on: August 03, 2018, 09:29:59 AM »
Some information or disinformation about the victim is getting out there that makes her sound bat sh!t crazy.   Not sure how The OSU is going to handle it but it's going to take a while.  Like weeks if not months.  
I suspected someone would bring this up eventually. I touched on it far upthread, as far as the mother (bitch) talking her into staying for money and all that crap. So yes, she stayed and she seems a little "off" on camera, but that doesn't make her "bat shit crazy" or anything close to it.
If she was truly crazy, she would not have gained custody of the children - as in any. So yeah, disinformation for sure.
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