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Topic: In other news ...

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847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30338 on: April 06, 2024, 07:43:03 AM »
Israel has problems on all sides and from far away. 

The UK really screwed the pooch.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30339 on: April 06, 2024, 07:47:34 AM »
Their borders with Jordan and Egypt are probably in the "OK" range, if they nuked Iran (!!!) that could change.  Iran obviously encourages others to do their dirty work, which is a bit odd because Iranians and Arabs historically don't get along, at all, in fact, they despise each other.

I don't see some magical solution to any of this mess, certainly not one involving nuclear weapons (nor does anyone else).

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30340 on: April 06, 2024, 08:01:18 AM »
We need to pull out of that mess, and this mess.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-ukraine-oil-refineries-strikes-biden-administration-vladimir-putin-b0ef679c?st=xlvnxndyueuw5ex&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-ukraine-oil-refineries-strikes-biden-administration-vladimir-putin-b0ef679c?st=xlvnxndyueuw5ex&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30341 on: April 06, 2024, 08:03:58 AM »
I'm in favor of supporting Ukraine.  It's really a pretty small "donation" in relative terms and keeps them afloat.

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30342 on: April 06, 2024, 08:13:35 AM »
Clearly, I'm not in favor of supporting Ukraine, which is not and has never truly been a US Ally. 

I fear a broader escalation.

The EU (not NATO) can support Ukraine and risk escalation.

********************************

Why did W force Ukraine to return all of its Nukes to Russia? I don't remember that story.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30343 on: April 06, 2024, 08:23:05 AM »
There was a "deal" made with Russia, the nukes would go back and in return Russia agreed to leave Ukraine alone.  It looked like a good deal at the time.

Russia was starting to look more akin to a possible ally, and Bill Clinton was President.

The Trilateral Process: The United States, Ukraine, Russia and Nuclear Weapons | Brookings

Later in 1993, the Ukrainian and Russian governments signed a series of bilateral agreements giving up Ukrainian claims to the nuclear weapons and the Black Sea Fleet, in return for $2.5 billion of gas and oil debt cancellation and future supplies of fuel for its nuclear power reactors.

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30344 on: April 06, 2024, 08:30:09 AM »
For some reason I thought it was W, since he did so much other damage around the world.

So, it was Clinton. Interesting.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30345 on: April 06, 2024, 09:57:33 AM »
For some reason I thought it was W, since he did so much other damage around the world.

So, it was Clinton. Interesting.
Either way, it makes sense. The fewer countries with nukes, the fewer opportunities exist that one goes rogue and uses them. It made a small addition to Russia's nuclear stockpile, but it reduced Ukraine from "some" to "none". 

Granted, it may have led to this, but if Ukraine currently has weapons and Russia still invaded, how much more likely would it be that a desperate Ukraine uses them if they're in danger of being completely overrun? 

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30346 on: April 06, 2024, 10:00:58 AM »
Sure, no doubt, but it's reality.  I don't see how nuclear has much of a future in the US (aside from very long term, maybe).

MAYBE SMRs start getting built in numbers, but I doubt that happens.

This is one reason there is NO PLAN.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30347 on: April 06, 2024, 02:21:00 PM »
I don't think a first use of nuclear weapons against Iran would do anything for Israel but make things much much worse, and they appear to think the same way, which is notable.  Iran is not their only problem of course.  Making new problems seems ill advised to me.
How is attacking a country who's leaders have openly acknowledged wanting your country erased from existence cause 'more' problems? 
The Arabs don't care if you nuke Iran.  They'd understand it and understand they're not at risk.  Most would probably be happy about it.
Iran is a wart on the ass of the world.  Everything would be better if their threat-level matched their ideology:  back in the bronze age.

Israel has the world's biggest bully standing right beside it in support.  No, nuclear isn't a "good" idea, but it's better than further decades of inevitable skirmishes.  Enough with the generational fighting. 
We destroyed Germany, they're now an ally.  We destroyed Japan, they're now an ally.  Iran can get back to being a humdrum entity someday, but only if we (Israel, with our backing) press the reset button for them.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2024, 02:31:05 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30348 on: April 06, 2024, 03:51:48 PM »
Well, whatever you think (???) is fine with me, clearly Israel is not going to launch a first nuclear strike on Iran, and for reasons I outlined, I view it as a ridiculous notion.

Fortunately, Israel understands that as well.

But I suppose some folks like to latch on to apparently simplistic convenient notions.


OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30349 on: April 06, 2024, 04:11:55 PM »
Excuse me for having a conversation.
You're right, they won't do it.  
They'll just continue to have to fight for their existence, constantly, for the next 80 years.  
That's way better.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30350 on: April 06, 2024, 04:14:35 PM »
Your idea, in my opinion, is beyond ridiculous.  If you don't like my opinion, I really do not care.  Converse all you want.


OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30351 on: April 06, 2024, 05:07:11 PM »
Great post.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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