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Topic: In other news ...

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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30072 on: April 01, 2024, 07:39:34 AM »
 So for the billionaire class, what's really important is how much their wealth grows in a given year. The rest of us, we have income, and we need income to live. But for the billionaire class, they don't actually need income. They avoid income. If you avoid income, you avoid taxes. And so it turns out that the billionaire class pays much less in tax than average people. And what we found is that Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk and Michael Bloomberg and Carl Icahn, they literally, in recent years, paid zero in federal income tax. And what you do is you let your mountain of wealth grow over time. You let Amazon stock grow. Or if you're Warren Buffett, you let Berkshire Hathaway go up and up and up. And you never sell. And if you never sell, you don't take any income.

And how are these people living if they don't sell? Well, often, what they do is they borrow against their wealth. And if you're borrowing against your wealth, that's not taxed. So ultimately, what we found was that the ultrawealthy in this country, they had wealth growth of $400 billion from 2014 to 2018, and they paid about $14 billion in taxes. And so average people pay roughly 15% in federal income taxes effectively, and the ultrawealthy paid 3.4% when compared to their wealth growth.


How the ultrawealthy devise ways to not pay their share of taxes : NPR

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30073 on: April 01, 2024, 08:07:09 AM »
I've noted before how the truly wealthy don't need any taxable income (they usually will have some, but don't need to).  So, their tax rates are inherently going to be low, or even zero.  Imagine I own a hundred million dollars in Apple stock.  I need say $2 million a year for my lifestyle.  I borrow off my stock holding that $2 million tax free.  I can do this for a long time especially if the stock appreciates.  I may pay 5% interest or so, maybe less.


Yes, we all know this and wish we were in that space.

Did you read the article?

The top 1% of earners pay almost half of the total revenue the IRS collects.

That's the point. The rich ARE being taxed.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30074 on: April 01, 2024, 08:23:02 AM »
I make some distinction between the "rich" and "high income earners".  My glib definition of the former is "folks who need no taxable income".

Oddly enough, though, the US tax code is rather progressive as compared with most European tax codes which tend to hit the middle class much harder than in the US.  That's where one can raise the most tax revenue the easiest, in effect.  The overall tax on the middle class in Scandanavia is quite high when one includes the VAT.


How Scandinavian Countries Fund Social Programs | Tax Foundation

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30075 on: April 01, 2024, 08:25:51 AM »
Ahh, Europe.

Utopia!

There is a big difference between being rich and being wealthy. We've discussed this at length in the past. The top 1% earners are rich, but possibly not wealthy. If they are both, that's great.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30076 on: April 01, 2024, 08:31:08 AM »

It's an interesting point, I think, about how we tax here vs Europeans.  It's also interesting how little corporate tax contributes to the overall.  



Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30077 on: April 01, 2024, 08:41:29 AM »
Imagine, dream on, that the various political "parties"  in the US actually compromised on various issues like immigration, tax and SS reform, climate change, health insurance, education, crime, gun control, minimum wage, whatever.  Neither side would get everything, the extremes on each side would be screaming (let them), 

I think "we" would be less active, less willing to donate funds and time to "our side", less vocal on SM, etc.

Each party would lose influence, power, control.

Dream on.

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30078 on: April 01, 2024, 08:47:12 AM »
It's an interesting point, I think, about how we tax here vs Europeans.  It's also interesting how little corporate tax contributes to the overall. 



I'd like to know more about the background on this table.

For example, all corporations much contribute the other half of every employee's SS tax and Medicare tax. Where does that show up here? If it doesn't, it's very misleading.

Aside from our payroll, these contributions are our largest cost.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30079 on: April 01, 2024, 09:00:05 AM »
It should be incuded in the social insurance cost bar as that would reflect ALL such taxes, including those paid by employers.

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30080 on: April 01, 2024, 09:04:27 AM »
So, corporate taxes are more like 18% - not 6%.

Employees who work for corporations are paid and pay income taxes.

Corporations are evil?
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30081 on: April 01, 2024, 09:13:37 AM »
Yeah, total corporate tax contributions would be greater.  It should say "corporate income taxes".

There is certainly a "feeling" that all corporations are evil, even though some are nonprofits.


847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30082 on: April 01, 2024, 09:26:26 AM »
Corporations are generally not evil. Of course, there are some. FTX comes to mind.

Unelected bureaucrats and government employees make up most of the evil in this country. 

Teacher unions are right there too, and AFSME.
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FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30083 on: April 01, 2024, 09:27:39 AM »
and the Sooners
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30084 on: April 01, 2024, 09:38:54 AM »
I thought my company was amoral, some of the higher level folks were what I'd consider immoral.  To get to that higher level almost required a person to do things I viewed as immoral, there were some exceptions.  I think if companies could "get away with it", most would do scketchy things for profit.

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30085 on: April 01, 2024, 09:44:33 AM »
I thought my company was amoral, some of the higher level folks were what I'd consider immoral.  To get to that higher level almost required a person to do things I viewed as immoral, there were some exceptions.  I think if companies could "get away with it", most would do scketchy things for profit.
Much of the amoral behavior is caused by tax codes. They need some fixing.
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