Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

I find them very related. I rather admired Obama's approach, which was to have policies with other countries, as well as proactively affirming "illegal" immigrants who arrived as children while also being pretty harsh to illegal immigrants who committed crimes. Trump's policy was "we're full." Biden's policy is...not locking up illegal immigrants in cages? I'm unsure to be honest.

In any event, neither party is making any case for expanding illegal immigration even in the face of labor shortages and inflation. Kind of nuts if you ask me, but I get that closing the border is the flavor of the month for politicians.

Obama locked immigrants in cages, and he deported far more than anyone wants to believe.

BOLD: 100 percent agree.

We need immigration reform and will likely never get it - just like we will never get abortion codified. We all know the reasons.

I think some folks are conflating LEGAL versus ILLEGAL.  I doubt many here support the latter, most probably think the former is needed (I do).

We could debate all year and then some how to change the "System", but I agree Congress is unable to get much of anything done.


A person can be for legal immigration and against the other kind.

1. Close the borders.
Simple enough, IMO.  Enforce the laws we already have, stop the whole amnesty ridiculousness, fine employers who hire illegals en masse, 

The amnesty ridiculousness is codified in US law.

Sure, but he posted this:

Enforce the laws we already have, stop the whole amnesty ridiculousness

And of course I have minimal hope for Congress to adjust the laws sensibly no matter who is President.

Talk of "closing the border", to me, is completely separate from limiting legal immigration.

agreed. any country has to be able to control it's borders. we have chaos at our southern border, not control.

legal immigration is a necessary and vital part of this country and a huge part of what has made it so great. we literally would not have a country without it.

I crossed our border last week, it clearly wasn't "open" for me anyway.  And that was in Texas.  (It took maybe 10 minutes standing in line.)

Full disclosure, I think most here know I'm married to a legal immigrant (and US citizen).  I also hired a fair number of immigrants back in the day, going through the green card process a few times (greatly abetted by lawyers).  

I have stamps on my passport for most countries I visited but not the US (and not Canada I think).  The stamp in Japan and Korea is an actual sticky thingee.  They check you on the way out too.  There is one stamp for Oman, the most obscure place I've visited.

Sometimes the best for this country is to help others, but I think "we" go too far much of the time. It's maddening to see how much "we" waste (here, and overseas).

100%. i'm all for helping others, don't get me wrong. we unfortunately most often don't help others that really need it- and much of our help is not economic & development. unfortunately most of our "help" is sowing discord and discontent or even overthrowing gov'ts we don't like and giving rich countries free money to buy weapons from us. this helps no one but us defense contractors and us multi-nationals only causes problems and death and destruction.