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Topic: In other news ...

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FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #29162 on: February 27, 2024, 11:40:34 PM »
the electric car might not make it too much further into the future

batteries seem to be a problem
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utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #29163 on: February 27, 2024, 11:45:51 PM »
Batteries were always going to be the problem.  Our advances in technology for something like microprocessors has been exponentially larger and faster than our advances in battery technology over the same timespan.

Comparing battery technology to something like transistor fabrication, batteries are effectively not too far removed jamming two dissimilar metals into a potato and calling it a day.

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #29164 on: February 28, 2024, 07:07:29 AM »
Apple sucks. That is all.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #29165 on: February 28, 2024, 07:23:06 AM »
Hyundai is building a huge EV plant in GA, it should be running by end of year, or so I read.  They all put a ton of money into EVs.  They may be wrong, longer term, I certainly don't know that.  No doubt government pressure is a factor.

Norway is a good example of having a large EV infrastructure (government incentives were significant).  It can work, at least in Norway.

Twenty or so years back I attended a seminar our battery people put on for the unwashed masses like me.  The issues were daunting in terms of putting more storage capacity into a small volume and having it be stable and durable.  They were intended to be "duracells" so to speak.

It means a lot of reactive chemistry in a small vessel, no way around that.  I said "huh".

Gigem

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #29166 on: February 28, 2024, 07:30:02 AM »
The key thing that is missing is that while battery capacity has increased incrementally the price has dropped by a good amount every year. The last figure I saw a few years ago is that the price has dropped 10% every year since 2013. 

Even if the capacity never goes up 10% with current technology, battery powered cars will get cheaper and cheaper until they are on par with ICE and then fall below it. 

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #29167 on: February 28, 2024, 07:31:03 AM »
Meanwhile, hybrids today are a decent option, I think (obviously, since I bought one).  A downside is quite a bit more complexity and some additional cost.  The upside aside from better mpg in town is better acceleration (usually).  And while the "news" has a lot in it about EVs not meeting goals, sales are still increasing pretty steeply.

But as I've said, it'll be a while before seeing an EV on the road isn't a kind of near novelty, I'd guess we're near 5% around here., one in 20.  It's not much higher in Europe aside from Norway.  And of course we see some utilities going pretty hard for unreliable wind and solar and wonder where all the juice can come from if the wind don't blow at night.

FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #29168 on: February 28, 2024, 08:32:45 AM »
The key thing that is missing is that while battery capacity has increased incrementally the price has dropped by a good amount every year. The last figure I saw a few years ago is that the price has dropped 10% every year since 2013.

Even if the capacity never goes up 10% with current technology, battery powered cars will get cheaper and cheaper until they are on par with ICE and then fall below it.
cheaper for initial purchase

but, if the battery needs to be replaced after 12 years..............
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #29169 on: February 28, 2024, 08:35:04 AM »
Not only after 12 years, but the range will of course degrade over time, maybe 3-5% each year depending.  So your lofty 300 mile range turns into ~200 miles in ~7-8 years?


The deal breaker for me is the cost to charge away from home.

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #29170 on: February 28, 2024, 08:35:18 AM »
That was easy!

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FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #29171 on: February 28, 2024, 08:37:30 AM »
there are a significant number of vehicles on the road today that are older than 15 years

I can see why the automakers would want to bring that number down and force folks to buy new much more often
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #29172 on: February 28, 2024, 08:44:25 AM »
I think they'd prefer batteries lasted longer, but they don't.  I don't know about suspension components, tires are said to wear faster.  The EVs are heavy vehicles.  Designwise, when you add weight, you have to add more weight to support that additional weight.

I don't see EVs taking over, so to speak, for many many years, at best (?).  The number will creep up of course, but it will take a while even if government requires new cars to be EVs by 2035 (which I suspect gets modified).  One projection says HALF by 2050, and that may be optimistic.

The first barrier I suspect will be getting two car HHs to have one of them be an EV, which might work for most.

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #29173 on: February 28, 2024, 08:56:23 AM »
Do we have an electric car thread?
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #29174 on: February 28, 2024, 09:06:13 AM »
had the EV Porsche for like a week and got rid of it. range on a full charge is only 240ish miles, which is a joke and you won't get anywhere close to that if you really drive it, because the battery life drains fast if you actually punch it and enjoy it. car is seriously gorgeous and the interior is beautiful and it's fast as hell, but...it sucks.

you have to download an app on your phone to find the fast chargers that are compatible, you can't just go to a Tesla supercharger station- which seem to be everywhere- and when you do find the compatible fast chargers there are lines sometimes for the chargers and you have to wait a long time to use them. takes like 40-50 minutes to charge from 38-40% to 95+% on the fast chargers- and who has time to do this all the time? and it's not cheap, about $16-$17 every time you have to charge, and you'll have to charge like every other day if you really drive it- which adds up. 

EVs are just not practical. At all. Range sucks on pretty much all of them except the long range Teslas. The charging infrastructure isn't there in the public- except for Tesla. EVs only make sense if you have the charging set up in your garage and you can charge the car every night and if you are only driving the EV locally maybe 40-50 miles a day. If you really drive and drive all around- an EV sucks.

I'd never get an EV, but if I did I would only get a Tesla. Even though I feel like the Tesla isn't that great looking and the interior of all their cars are complete and utter garbage. They just have better tech, better batteries and range, and better infrastructure for the charging in the public than any other company making EVs and it's not close imo. 

Temp430

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #29175 on: February 28, 2024, 11:55:45 AM »
Sweden cleared the final hurdle earlier this week with the vote in Hungary and will officially join NATO shortly.  Huge upgrade for the alliance.  As with Finland, there's not much love loss between Sweden and Russia.
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