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Topic: In other news ...

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bayareabadger

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #26922 on: October 02, 2023, 05:40:44 PM »
Despite the death penalty being explicitly authorized by the constitution. 

Is that a reading of the life, liberty, or property bit in the due process parts?

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #26923 on: October 02, 2023, 06:49:31 PM »
However, I think "stop & frisk" is a bridge too far.
And just to clarify on this... "Stop & frisk" not being synonymous with "tough on crime"... It's just a really visible tactic for the voters to see from a PR perspective. 

But did it work? Some say no... 

Quote
NYPD’s deployment of extra police to high crime neighborhoods contributed far more to the crime reduction than the use of stop, question, and frisk. Research on the NYPD’s program of Operation Impact found that extra police deployed to high crime areas in New York was a major factor in the crime decline: a 12% to 15% reduction. The additional use of stop, question, and frisk made almost no difference. The stops only had a detectable impact on crime when the stops were based on probable cause, and these kinds of stops were very rare. Other research by Weisburd and colleagues also showed that stop, question, and frisk practices had only small associations with crime reduction (on the order 2%). And this study did not measure the effects of stops over and above increased officer deployment.


Emphasis added. 

You can be tough on crime without violating your citizens' constitutional rights against unreasonable search & seizure. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #26924 on: October 02, 2023, 11:58:26 PM »


As far as basic Constitutional rights, the Constitution states:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated"

That doesn't say "No stop and frisk" and I wouldn't interpret it to say that.
Thank god you're not a judge.  Holy shit, man.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #26925 on: October 03, 2023, 03:50:52 AM »
Thank god you're not a judge.  Holy shit, man.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop

Earl Warren
HUgo Black
John Harlan
William Brennan
Potter Stewart
Byron White (played football at Colorado)
Abe Fortas
Thurgood Marshall

Judges

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #26926 on: October 03, 2023, 10:57:05 AM »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop

Well, that's not just "you're in a crime-ridden neighborhood so you surrender all rights"...

Quote
The United States Supreme Court held that where: (1) a police officer observes unusual conduct by a subject; (2) the subject's conduct leads the Officer reasonably to conclude that criminal activity may be afoot, and that the subject may be armed and presently dangerous; (3) the officer identifies himself as a policeman; (4) the officer makes reasonable inquiries; and (5) nothing in the initial stages of the encounter serves to dispel the officer's reasonable fear for safety, the officer may conduct a carefully limited search of the outer clothing of the subject in an attempt to discover weapons, and that such a search is a reasonable search under the Fourteenth Amendment, so that any weapons seized may properly be introduced in evidence.



I have a personal example I've talked about here before. Back in ~2003-04 when I rode a motorcycle, I had left work and was headed home, including a stop at the bank. In my haste, I parked the bike and was halfway into the door of the bank before I took my helmet off. I conducted my business, and as I was leaving the bank, already had my helmet on. So for any reasonable observer outside the bank, they never saw me without my helmet, and there could be reasonable suspicion that I had worn a helmet into a bank for the purposes of non-identification. 

Two officers happened to be there and saw me come out of the bank. My conduct was unusual (1), a reasonable observer could conclude criminal activity may be afoot (2). They were uniformed so didn't need to verbally identify themselves (3), detained me briefly, and made reasonable inquiries as to my behavior (4), and ensured that no, the bank had not in fact been robbed. So based on #5 (the initial stages of the encounter where I explained myself and didn't give them reason to feel threatened), plus the fact that the bank hadn't actually called the police and reported a robbery, they did not attempt to search me. 

This is a lot different then being hassled and searched because you happen to be a young black man in Manhattan wearing something other than a suit, which is my understanding of what most of stop & frisk was. 

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #26927 on: October 03, 2023, 11:43:33 AM »
Whatever they did in NYC worked.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #26928 on: October 03, 2023, 11:46:08 AM »
Is that a reading of the life, liberty, or property bit in the due process parts?
There are others, but yes.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #26929 on: October 03, 2023, 11:48:00 AM »
And just to clarify on this... "Stop & frisk" not being synonymous with "tough on crime"... It's just a really visible tactic for the voters to see from a PR perspective.

But did it work? Some say no...


Emphasis added.

You can be tough on crime without violating your citizens' constitutional rights against unreasonable search & seizure.
A bunch of left-wing academics conducted a study and found what they wanted to find. I'm shocked.

Temp430

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #26930 on: October 03, 2023, 11:52:23 AM »
A decade of Victory over Penn State.

All in since 1969

medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #26931 on: October 03, 2023, 11:54:14 AM »
It's the Buckeye fans turn to pony up for Peacock.


https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/news/2023/10/2/football-streaming-platform-peacock-to-carry-ohio-state-at-purdue
Originally they were going to do that for this weekend's game (Maryland) but with the Terps still undefeated Fox picked that up.

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #26932 on: October 03, 2023, 12:01:13 PM »
This is a lot different then being hassled and searched because you happen to be a young black man in Manhattan wearing something other than a suit, which is my understanding of what most of stop & frisk was.
On the rare occasion with a rouge and over-aggressive cop, yes it was. But it was rare.

There are bad cops in amongst the many good ones. Lots of examples of this in Chicago, under Jon Burge.


Jon Burge - Wikipedia
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #26933 on: October 03, 2023, 12:26:38 PM »
Canadians...

U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #26934 on: October 03, 2023, 12:43:27 PM »
I could be wrong, but my understanding of Stop and Frisk was the the officer had to have probable cause to Stop and Frisk someone without their consent. I don't believe that they could simply pick a person at random and search them, they had to have a valid reason for the search. 

If that is NOT the case, then I would agree that it is a violation of a person's rights. 

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #26935 on: October 03, 2023, 12:46:24 PM »
A growing school here is "SCAD", Savannah College of Art and Design.  They have built a number of student residence towers near me.  I was amused by this comment by a poster about a recent one just finished:

The average cost of a SCAD degree is $205k. The average starting salary is $33k. Paula Wallace received $9.6 million in compensation in 2014, and 13 members of her family have received $60 million over the past 20 years. At one point, Business Insider described SCAD as the biggest rip off in education. I guess some of the money is going to buildings too.

Photos: SCAD's massive Midtown expansion is officially finished | Urbanize Atlanta
Photos: SCAD's massive Midtown expansion is officially finished | Urbanize Atlanta


I don't know if that is the case, it well may be, anyway, word of warning perhaps.

 

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