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Topic: In other news ...

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GopherRock

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #25466 on: July 20, 2023, 05:44:58 PM »
Getting back to this...

What I know about office space is that generally there is 12' of spacing between the concrete floor and the floor above it. Ceilings are dropped 2 feet to accommodate mechanical, plumbing, electrical and HVAC.

For individual apartments, the floor would be raised 6-8" using wood joists, allowing for waste plumbing. Potable water plumbing is dropped from above. Or course you need waste risers so those would be in the walls and sent to the main building riser. Pipes may need to be upsized to accommodate the increased flow, as residential water use is roughly 10 times that of office, in population equivalents.

You'd probably end up with 8-9 foot ceilings, all things considered.

The other factor is the structural concerns, which I'm certain @GopherRock knows a helluva lot more than me about.

And it may not be a concern, as commercial live loads are generally 3-5 times more than that of residential loads.
This is part and parcel with the structural concerns. In discussions like this, it's easy to forget that water is heavy. It weighs ~62 pounds per cubic foot, and moving water has an inertia of it's own..

I'll admit that my structural knowledge is a little rusty, but when you're increasing the water flow by a factor of 10, both coming and going, it doesn't take very long before any weight gains in conversion to residential live load are wiped out.

Like Badge, before we can talk conversion, I need to see all original plans. 

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #25467 on: July 20, 2023, 05:53:24 PM »
Atlanta Retrofitting Prominent Office Tower to Residential (strongtowns.org)

But, as often happens when you do the math, this feel-good story has a rub: “Converting offices to residential is a great idea, it’s just really hard and really expensive,” says Eric Kronberg, an Atlanta-based developer with Kronberg Urbanists + Architects. Kronberg points to numerous physical challenges with such a project. “The floor plates can be deep, so it’s hard to design units with bedrooms and living spaces that have glass. Building codes require ventilation, and people like to be able to open a window. That’s not easily achievable in most office building skins.”
Even after a successful renovation, the economics of converting office to residential is still problematic. “As crazy as our rents are [in Atlanta], they're still not high enough to support this kind of development,” says Kronberg. For the 2 Peachtree Street project, the city hasn’t yet provided “any breakdown of price points for the rents,” according to Atlanta Civic Circle. Kronberg says many developers would struggle to make a profit with this type of project even if they were given the office building for free, citing another building Atlanta bought eight years ago that’s still vacant for want of a development partner.
Kronberg would like to see the city work with developers to turn “a huge surplus of vacant land” into a greater mix of housing types, which would be more economical than the hefty expenditures for the Peachtree Street project. He also expresses frustration at how slow the permitting process is in a city with a “wretched housing crisis.”


« Last Edit: July 21, 2023, 08:03:15 AM by Cincydawg »

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #25468 on: July 20, 2023, 05:57:55 PM »

bayareabadger

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #25469 on: July 20, 2023, 06:00:33 PM »
Yeah, but I want solutions, and this is not a solution:


Not even close.

Correct, but alas, yelling at the nonsense descends us into unseriousness on all sides. 

utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #25470 on: July 20, 2023, 07:09:21 PM »
what the hell is going on here?

Anyway...


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #25471 on: July 20, 2023, 07:23:01 PM »
Correct, but alas, yelling at the nonsense descends us into unseriousness on all sides.
Well, yelling at the nonsense is about as useful as seriousness. 

Because everyone is against NIMBYism in theory, but in practice once something intrudes on their own backyard, they find a reason to make an exception

It's the fun of humanity. 

Just like everyone knows that a balanced diet and regular exercise is necessary to be healthy and fit, and often say they plan to do exactly that... But to paraphrase Iron Mike, "Everyone has a plan until they want to shove a Big Mac in their mouth."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #25472 on: July 20, 2023, 07:29:37 PM »
Wait a minute... - Futurama Fry | Make a Meme
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #25473 on: July 21, 2023, 08:04:04 AM »
Well, we have learned that the major increase in the unhoused seems to be local to Arizona, so it's their problem.  The other 49 appear to be dropping slightly.

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #25474 on: July 21, 2023, 08:09:01 AM »
Converting offices into housing has not worked out the way we hoped. (slate.com)

Sounds difficult, and pricey.
Again, it depends on the circumstances.

My firm is working on 3 such redevelopments in the West suburbs of Chicago. 
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #25475 on: July 21, 2023, 08:13:17 AM »
I'm sure it can work in some instances, but perhaps not in every.  

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #25476 on: July 21, 2023, 08:16:10 AM »
What about conversions of older hotels in city centers?  You already have the plumbing.  You could make a decent suite with two typical rooms.  I've seen some converted to "Embassy Suites" this way.  How many older hotels are past their prime?

FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #25477 on: July 21, 2023, 08:31:43 AM »
I'm sure it can work in some instances, but perhaps not in every. 
works less often for "affordable" housing because of high expense 
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #25478 on: July 21, 2023, 08:41:57 AM »
One isssue is that the authorities can't take a person off the streets just because he's crazy (unless he commits a crime, and even then they usually overlook it).  We no longer have involuntary mental hospitals.  I've called 311 a few times and they call me back (usually).  The individuals have never accepted their offers of help or housing.  These are folks living outside, no tent or anything beyond maybe a shopping cart.  Then cities have tent villages like in SF, I saw some in Vancouver (which seems to have a real problem as well).  If you have a tent, you are "covered" and probably have possessions you wish to retain, most of which would be gone if you accepted a housing offer.

To the extent these folks are "crazy", free housing of whatever type won't be appealing by and large.  Crazy includes both mentally deranged as well as drug addled, they don't know where they are basically.  This is probably a small percentage of folks in tent villages, but significant for the homeless.  The tent thing is not very apparent around here, I see some on occasion when driving, but the next time I come through they are gone, I don't know exactly why.

And of course the notion that at some point these folks will "rise up and burn everything down" is not one I think has much to it, nor is the risk of communism very high in my view.  The burning arises usually from some police incident which leads to protests which can degrade into riots and then looting and burning.

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #25479 on: July 21, 2023, 08:47:43 AM »
What about conversions of older hotels in city centers?  You already have the plumbing.  You could make a decent suite with two typical rooms.  I've seen some converted to "Embassy Suites" this way.  How many older hotels are past their prime?
Concern there would be the electrical requirements, I'd think. That's not a super-hard fix though.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

 

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