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Topic: In other news ...

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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24738 on: June 21, 2023, 01:37:13 PM »
Nobody said anything about who had overwhelming evidence, anywhere.  That's a straw man.

Are you stating that he did not lie on the firearms form?  

MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24739 on: June 21, 2023, 01:39:18 PM »
Nobody said anything about who had overwhelming evidence, anywhere.  That's a straw man.

Are you stating that he did not lie on the firearms form? 
I'm saying that they have an agreement now does not make the case stronger. If this was presented as a charge that the government had to prove, it may have been a weak case, for various reasons. That he entered diversion and admitted to the underlying facts does not mean that government had a great case.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24740 on: June 21, 2023, 01:44:26 PM »
This thread is humorous. 

Virtually nobody in the Biden camp, Washington D.C., the liberal media- talking heads- is disputing that Hunter Biden failed to pay taxes due, and lied on a gun application ( a felony).

But we have people here taking the position that he took plea deals on both, not because he actually committed the crimes, but to compromise to an acceptable conclusion.

Classic
That's not what I'm reading. I'm guessing he took the plea deals because he actually committed the crimes. 

At best what I'm gathering from Sam is that him accepting the plea deal on the gun charge is admitting that he used drugs, but the prosecutor can't use that admission as evidence in a trial for the gun charge because he didn't admit it until it became part of the plea deal

Essentially that the prosecutor would have to PROVE that he was a drug user, if it went to trial. 

The prosecutor offered the plea deal because there might be a chance he would lose at trial and Hunter be found not guilty. Hunter accepted the plea deal because there might be a chance (especially since he IS in fact a drug user) he would be found guilty. 

Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24741 on: June 21, 2023, 01:51:21 PM »
That's not what I'm reading. I'm guessing he took the plea deals because he actually committed the crimes.

At best what I'm gathering from Sam is that him accepting the plea deal on the gun charge is admitting that he used drugs, but the prosecutor can't use that admission as evidence in a trial for the gun charge because he didn't admit it until it became part of the plea deal.

Essentially that the prosecutor would have to PROVE that he was a drug user, if it went to trial.

The prosecutor offered the plea deal because there might be a chance he would lose at trial and Hunter be found not guilty. Hunter accepted the plea deal because there might be a chance (especially since he IS in fact a drug user) he would be found guilty.
Well- that is your interpretation of Sam's position

Also- HB has openly admitted- in a very public forum GMA) that he has a serious addiction problem. Also- just do a search/ plenty of photos which are incriminating.  Proof was easy.  Already there in fact.

No- they put him in a diversion program - which by the way- many experts have said he wasn’t even eligible for. 

Does anyone believe getting a conviction in either the tax case or the gun case would have been even remotely difficult? 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24742 on: June 21, 2023, 01:53:45 PM »

Does anyone believe getting a conviction in either the tax case or the gun case would have been even remotely difficult?
Yes

Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24743 on: June 21, 2023, 01:59:22 PM »
Yes
And I respect your opinion. As always. You are an attorney as I recall.  

But I just disagree.    

But even if you are correct- a related issue is this question of a two tiered justice system. 

I can’t say I care -at all- for either party.  But it just seems so obvious that the DOJ ant the FBI are so tilted in one direction.  
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24744 on: June 21, 2023, 01:59:43 PM »
Hunter Biden on Addiction and His Family’s Effort to Keep Him Alive | Time

I presume the tax case is pretty clear cut, and of course he admitted openly to being a drug addict, and was kicked out of the Navy for a positive test.

I'm sure he was advised by council to take the pleas because they knew it would be almost impossible to get an NG verdict.  One can make all sorts of excuses for whatever, but I think most rational people understand he was a drug addict, he did lie on that form, and he did evade taxes, quite a large sum in fact, on $3 million over two years.


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24745 on: June 21, 2023, 02:00:36 PM »

Does anyone believe getting a conviction in either the tax case or the gun case would have been even remotely difficult?
I'll bet Marcia Clark thought getting a conviction was a slam dunk. 

Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24746 on: June 21, 2023, 02:02:21 PM »
I'll bet Marcia Clark thought getting a conviction was a slam dunk.

Good point.   
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24747 on: June 21, 2023, 02:03:18 PM »
I'll bet Marcia Clark thought getting a conviction was a slam dunk.

Depends on who you are and who you know.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24748 on: June 21, 2023, 02:08:28 PM »
Depends on who you are and who you know.
And who is on the jury. 


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24749 on: June 21, 2023, 02:09:38 PM »
https://www.injusticewatch.org/news/2021/disappearing-jury-trials-study/

In the federal criminal justice system, fewer than 2% of cases went to trial in the 12-month period ending in March 2020, the most recent for which data from the federal judiciary is available.

bayareabadger

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24750 on: June 21, 2023, 02:11:54 PM »
Also worth noting, there’s a recent Supreme Court case that possibly threw out that particular rule about guns and drug use. So if you push it, decent chance it gets wiped away anyway.

There’s a lawyer I’ve read who has a refrain that a lot of folks focus on what they want the law to be rather than what it is. That’s in part because what it is is both often confusing, adhering to its own weird logic and in some ways deeply unfair. The issue is, it probably isn’t deeply unfair in the way that aligns exactly to your priors (the priors usually being, my ideological enemy is of course getting away with everything).

And trying to really learn, understand how or why things operate as the do is hard, time consuming and bleak. It’s easier, and to a degree more fun, to find the tidbits that make us mad and get mad about them. Like, without a print out of someone’s actual record, making any of these judgements is somewhat speculative.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24751 on: June 21, 2023, 02:12:36 PM »
Sure, you get a better deal in most cases with a plea, and risk a much stiffer sentence if found guilty, this is known.  Do some folks take a plea even if the case is shaky?  Probably, in part because most of them know they are guilty.  But it could be Hunter wrote about being a crack addict just to sell books and he never used at all.  I'm sure he could try that defense, I doubt it would work.  There likely were a number of witnesses to his crack use, including photos etc.

Probably not hard to prove BARD.  

 

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