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Topic: In other news ...

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24528 on: June 14, 2023, 03:29:42 PM »
The fact that it doesn't make sense for me as an individual isn't important.  The problem is that there are inherently going to be a lot of people similarly situated in that they don't actually need to start or end or both downtown.  If you ( @betarhoalphadelta ) have a meeting in San Jose, at least getting to downtown LA is the same general direction as your meeting but if the train then takes you to downtown San Francisco you've overshot your destination by about 50 miles.  Even at 200 MPH that is a waste of 15 minutes and you now have to make the return trip likely at a much lower speed. 
Exactly. 

And as I pointed out, it's even worse where I am.

  • From where I am, it's about a 10 minute drive to the Irvine metro station. (0:10) 
  • I can park free, then cut that close enough to not have to wait more than maybe 10-15 minutes for a train. (0:20) 
  • That train will take me an hour to get to LA. (1:20)
  • From there I don't want to cut it closer than maybe 20 minutes to transfer to HSR. (1:40)
  • Assuming express, it's now about 2 hours and 40 minutes to SJ/SF I'm going to assume that they're going to make both stops even on the express. (5:20)
  • Now I have to get a car or Uber, but I'm not going to factor that in b/c I'd have to do that if I fly anyway. 

Compare that to flying.

  • It's 30 minutes to SNA. (0:30)
  • While I have cut it closer than this before, with great success as SNA is a pretty quick airport and I know have TSA precheck, I like to get there ~75 minutes before my flight. (1:45)
  • It's basically a 1 hour flight gate to gate. (2:45)
  • If I'm in San Jose, I'm done. Gotta get a car or Uber. 
  • If I'm heading to downtown SF, I need to take a 30 minute BART train, and let's assume an extra 30 minutes for waiting/ticketing/etc (3:45).

So for SJ I save 2 1/2 hours. For SF I save maybe 1 1/2 hours. 

If HSR would cost much less, I'd consider it (for personal travel, not likely for business because time=$$). But if it costs roughly the same as a flight, why would I bother? 

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24529 on: June 14, 2023, 03:56:34 PM »
In France it works pretty well because the government paid for it, and subsidizes it, but flights often are cheaper than the train.  The main thing about the TGV is it can drop you in the middle of whatever city while the airport may be well outside of it.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24530 on: June 14, 2023, 05:01:29 PM »
In France it works pretty well because the government paid for it, and subsidizes it, but flights often are cheaper than the train.  The main thing about the TGV is it can drop you in the middle of whatever city while the airport may be well outside of it.
My understanding is that in most of Europe the subsidy is either directly or indirectly paid with fuel taxes that make auto and air transport more expensive.  Thus the subsidy and tax act together to both push and pull travelers to the trains.  

Note that this isn't the only reason trains are so much more practical in Europe.  The biggest reason is that Europe has substantially higher population density which obviously makes public transit much more practical.  

Building off of Beta's LA->SF example:
Per google the flight (LAX to SFO) takes 1:10 with prices starting at $108.  Per Google Flights the price ranges from $108 to $359 but I would guess that most travelers are paying around $150-200 so call it $175.  The time ranges from 1:10 to 1:36 so call it 1:25.  

To make the same trip by car Google says it is 379 mi and takes 6:20.  379 mi at 30 MPG would cost you 12.6 gallons of gas.  According to Google, gas in California is about $5/gallon so that is about $65 in gas to make the trip by car but gets cheaper per-passenger as you add people unlike flying which costs the same per traveler.  

Per Beta's example the train would take around 2:40.  Lets say, just for sake of discussion that a "free market price" for the train would be about 75% of flying so about $130.  

Now for someone traveling alone the options are:
  • 1:25 to fly, costs $175
  • 2:40 by train, costs $130
  • 6:20 to drive, costs $65
It is a pretty simple analysis at that point, if you start from flying:
  • Train costs you 1:15 and saves you $45.  That is $36/hour.  
  • Driving costs you 4:55 and saves you $110.  That is about $22/hour.  
Most of us are going to pay the $36/hour to upgrade from the train to the plane and nearly all of us will forgo driving.  The main exception would be if someone is taking their family.  If you have four people on the trip the numbers change dramatically:
  • 1:25 to fly, costs $700.  
  • 2:40 by train, costs $520.  
  • 6:20 to drive, costs $65.  

Starting once again from flying:
  • Train costs you 1:15 and saves $180 (same math as above just x4).  
  • Driving costs you 4:55 and saves you $635.  You might actually spend the time in the car if it saves you $635 depending on what you are doing and how big of a hurry you are in.  

Now if we institute a tax that increases the price of flying or driving by 30% while decreasing the price of the train by 30% we get:
  • 1:25 to fly, costs $227.50
  • 2:40 by train, costs $91.  
  • 6:20 to drive, costs $84.50.  
Or keep going.  Eventually the train becomes a viable option for enough people to make it work.  


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24531 on: June 14, 2023, 05:44:30 PM »

Now for someone traveling alone the options are:
  • 1:25 to fly, costs $175
  • 2:40 by train, costs $130
  • 6:20 to drive, costs $65

Now if we institute a tax that increases the price of flying or driving by 30% while decreasing the price of the train by 30% we get:
  • 1:25 to fly, costs $227.50
  • 2:40 by train, costs $91. 
  • 6:20 to drive, costs $84.50. 

And there we have the crux of government.

"You don't want to do what we tell you to do? Okay, we're going to make your preferences more expensive to pay to make our preferences cheaper so that you do what we tell you to do!"

bayareabadger

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24532 on: June 14, 2023, 06:01:42 PM »
Housing inflation will almost surely fall soon, say economists (cnbc.com)


  • Shelter is the largest component of the consumer price index.
  • The category, therefore, has a big influence on the direction of overall inflation.
  • Housing trends feed through to the CPI with a substantial lag. Economists think a reversal is essentially guaranteed in the second half of the year.


I suspect the housing market has peaked and could drop rather dramatically.  Interest rates are of course one driver, pent up demand is another, which I'm guessing is also peaking.  Inventory of single family around here is still quite low.


Because of my upbringing, I will never believe this to be the case.

I would really like it to be the case, because I now live in and in demand urban area like a sucker.

bayareabadger

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24533 on: June 14, 2023, 06:09:08 PM »
We had a Chicago office for a time. I'd go once per week. Super convenient to use the Metra NW line. I lived two blocks from one of the busiest stations, and they ran an express line from my stop all the way downtown (Oglivie). I'd walk across the street to Union Station, which my office was above. The walking was 10 minutes total. Train 35 minutes.

You could not get to downtown Chicago in 45 minutes from Palatine back then - no matter the time of day. Maybe you can now?? I don't know anymore.

And then parking would be at least $35/day. Probably still is.

Round trip was $8 bucks. Don't know what it is now, but I'm sure it's not $35.00.
Badge, as he often does, cuts to the core.

If driving is a dogshit experience and quite expensive, people take good public transit.

And if driving is just annoying and not prohibitive, people drive.

I live a block from a train, work two blocks from a stop. But the scheduling is so-so at best, and the 11 minute drive with free parking is fine. Plus my end of day flexibility and ability to toss things in the trunk increases considerably.

Gigem

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24534 on: June 14, 2023, 09:56:26 PM »
My company today announced they are going to start restricting being able to download things into usb drives and other types of removable storage. It all has to be done via email, Teams, share point, etc. 

Not saying I regularly use thumb drives anymore or other portable media but this just seems extra draconian. We often have pdf files and 
Pictures that far exceed email size restrictions that need To go to outside vendors. 

utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24535 on: June 14, 2023, 10:26:20 PM »
My company today announced they are going to start restricting being able to download things into usb drives and other types of removable storage. It all has to be done via email, Teams, share point, etc.

Not saying I regularly use thumb drives anymore or other portable media but this just seems extra draconian. We often have pdf files and
Pictures that far exceed email size restrictions that need To go to outside vendors.
Yeah we've had restrictions like that for years. Pretty sure that was a restriction even when I worked at AMD almost 20 years ago.

I've honestly been surprised when I've heard recent complaints like yours about it, I had no idea saving corporate files to a thumb drive was even still a thing.

bayareabadger

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24536 on: June 14, 2023, 10:39:07 PM »
My company today announced they are going to start restricting being able to download things into usb drives and other types of removable storage. It all has to be done via email, Teams, share point, etc.

Not saying I regularly use thumb drives anymore or other portable media but this just seems extra draconian. We often have pdf files and
Pictures that far exceed email size restrictions that need To go to outside vendors.
Gotta track that data. 

utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24537 on: June 14, 2023, 10:47:26 PM »
Gotta track that data.
I mean, it's a pretty huge security risk.

longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24538 on: June 14, 2023, 11:30:36 PM »
I mean, it's a pretty huge security risk.
both my children work from home and have never had those restrictions

but its not high tech so maybe thats the reason
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24539 on: June 15, 2023, 12:10:20 AM »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24540 on: June 15, 2023, 12:10:29 AM »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24541 on: June 15, 2023, 12:12:39 AM »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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