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Topic: In other news ...

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847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24290 on: June 05, 2023, 03:34:06 PM »
It’s a good shift.

I will be interested to see if we develop better mechanisms to connect young people to jobs and train them and more efficient ways.

One issues is that many 18-year-olds are useless morons. And when they get put in zero-structure situations, the output is not what you would like. For all of its drawbacks and its expenses, college does provide a space for a lot of people to fail in ways that help them down the line.

Beyond apprenticeships and such, probably more military participation and a greater social acceptance of living at home past 20 would be helpful.
I helped develop this program.


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medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24291 on: June 05, 2023, 04:03:49 PM »
There is nothing wrong with working with your hands. We need more of those people. Electricians. Plumbers. Welders. And on and on.
Agreed, and in addition to the fact that we need electricians, plumbers, welders, etc, those are chronically undersupplied.

Compare job prospects of trained electricians/plumbers/welders to those of people with degrees in sociology/art history/ploysci.

My view is that the concept of sending everyone* derives, I think, from the Lake Wobegon effect. In Garrison Keillor's fictional Lake Wobegon, Minnesota famously, "all the children are above average".

That may work in fiction but here in reality precisely half of the children are above average and the other half are . . . not.

My theory is that a college degree is probably only worthwhile for roughly the smartest quarter of people. Table:
[th][color=var(--wp--preset--color--vivid-purple)]IQ[/b][/font][/size][/color][/th]
[th][color=var(--wp--preset--color--vivid-purple)]Description[/b][/b][/color][/th]
[th][color=var(--wp--preset--color--vivid-purple)]% of Population[/b][/font][/size][/color][/th]


[th]130+[/th]


Very superior2.2%
[th]120–129[/th]


Superior6.7%
[th]110–119[/th]


High average16.1%
[th]90–109[/th]


Average50%
[th]80–89[/th]


Low average16.1%
[th]70–79[/th]


Borderline6.7%
[th]69 and below[/th]


Extremely low2.2%
75th percentile corresponds to an iq of 110 (2.2+6.7×16.1=25).

My view:
  • 130+, Very Superior, roughly the smartest of a randomly selected 50 people:  These folks should pretty much all go to not only college but grad school as well.
  • 120-129, Superior, roughly the rest of the smartest one-out-of-ten: These should definitely go to college and some should pursue grad school.
  • 110-119, High Average, roughly the rest of the smartest one-in-four: A college degree is generally going to be worthwhile for these folks but there are exceptions. Also, if they choose to "work with their hands" they'll generally be among the smartest in their field which will typically mean that they rapidly climb to become supervisors and end up as productive and as well paid as their college-educated peers.
  • 100-109 (I've split average), above average, the rest of the smartest half: These folks are generally NOT well served by going to college. Many drop out or flunk out and those that succeed generally have to give up their dreams of becoming engineers and change their major to something less challenging in order to complete a degree.
  • 90-100, below average, and everyone below here: College is almost always a waste of time for these folks. However at least some are still capable of learning a trade and finding gainful employment.

*I realize that we don't actually send "everyone" to college but the 2/3 - 3/4 that we do send is, IMHO much closer to everyone than it is to an appropriate number.









OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24292 on: June 05, 2023, 05:12:25 PM »
I've never considered college and intelligence linked at all.  College = willingness to pay money and do the work.  Especially if you're studying something that interests you, anything challenging will be fun.
.
That being said, the smarter you are (up to a certain level), the more money you may make (if that's your priority).  But for maximized happiness, I think an IQ of 90-105 is probably best. 
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FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24293 on: June 05, 2023, 05:39:47 PM »
I've never considered college and intelligence linked at all.  
me either
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24294 on: June 05, 2023, 05:41:49 PM »
"I prefer tongue-tied knowledge to ignorant loquacity."

Marcus Tullius Cicero
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."


longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24296 on: June 05, 2023, 05:43:00 PM »
I've never considered college and intelligence linked at all.  College = willingness to pay money and do the work.  Especially if you're studying something that interests you, anything challenging will be fun.
.
looking back on all the stupid things I did I can testify to that
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24297 on: June 05, 2023, 05:44:09 PM »
The most important graph in educational psychology – Russell T. Warne (russellwarne.com)

Therefore, the average IQ for a person who earned an education degree was about 108. In the social sciences, it was 112. In physical sciences and engineering, the average IQ is about 119. Because most of these students self-selected into college majors, it seems that some areas of study are attracting very smart students and others . . . are not so much.

GopherRock

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24298 on: June 05, 2023, 05:46:04 PM »
The trades and appenticeships are good. Make the money when you can, but you have to have an exit strategy. At some point your body will not be able to do the work that the trades need.

My dad handled grain for 40+ years for Pillsbury and General Mills. One of the things he was adamant about was that we were going to get our educations, and not have to do hard manual labor like he did.  

Cincydawg

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FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24300 on: June 05, 2023, 05:48:13 PM »
my brother is in education

he understands better than most about the printing of degrees for profit
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MrNubbz

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24301 on: June 05, 2023, 06:38:45 PM »
He's a counterfeiter?
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

longhorn320

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They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24303 on: June 05, 2023, 06:57:11 PM »
hey, they are "experts"
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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