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Topic: In other news ...

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #23758 on: May 19, 2023, 12:21:56 AM »
Comfortable is the key word there.  
Comfort.
With comfort comes leisure.  If not time for leisure activities, then time for leisurely thoughts and ideas.
That's wealth, imo.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #23759 on: May 19, 2023, 12:43:32 AM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 18, 2023, 06:25:00 PM
So you just forget about the peninsula and San Jose?

I'm sure that will do wonders for ridership numbers...

The plan is to head south where existing rights-of-way are already available, although it will require some changes to support new trains: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_of_California_High-Speed_Rail
I was thinking that there is probably enough density to run trains both ways from Modesto:
  • Through San Jose and up the peninsula, and
  • North then West through Oakland and across the bay.

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847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #23760 on: May 19, 2023, 07:16:47 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 19, 2023, 12:21:56 AM
Comfortable is the key word there. 
Comfort.
With comfort comes leisure.  If not time for leisure activities, then time for leisurely thoughts and ideas.
That's wealth, imo.
And?
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #23761 on: May 19, 2023, 09:08:20 AM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 18, 2023, 07:24:38 PM
Upper middle class is being in a comfortable enough position that money isn't a regular concern or cause of stress, and you can do a lot of nice things, but it's not like you can fly to Paris every month and buy a Ferrari.
I COULD fly to Paris every month, for a while anyway.  And no, I'm not "rich" in my mind, I watch my spending.  I am able to do some things folks with more limited means cannot of course, which is true up and down the scheme.  My own definition of "rich" is a person who needs no taxable income.  I think that starts around $50 million in semi-liquid assets.  A person who earns say $20 million a year may not be "rich".  He could get there soon enough.

Terms like "rich" and "wealthy" have definitions that are individual.  To most living in Egypt, I'm certainly way rich, as are we all.

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #23762 on: May 19, 2023, 09:59:18 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 19, 2023, 12:21:56 AM
Comfortable is the key word there. 
Comfort.
With comfort comes leisure.  If not time for leisure activities, then time for leisurely thoughts and ideas.
That's wealth, imo.
So if you're not spending every waking hour at the grind, you're rich? 


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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #23763 on: May 19, 2023, 10:07:30 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 09:08:20 AM
I COULD fly to Paris every month, for a while anyway.  And no, I'm not "rich" in my mind, I watch my spending.  I am able to do some things folks with more limited means cannot of course, which is true up and down the scheme.  My own definition of "rich" is a person who needs no taxable income.  I think that starts around $50 million in semi-liquid assets.  A person who earns say $20 million a year may not be "rich".  He could get there soon enough.

Terms like "rich" and "wealthy" have definitions that are individual.  To most living in Egypt, I'm certainly way rich, as are we all.
Eh, I think your numbers are skewed to the opposite side of OAM's. 

I'd more define it as someone with enough assets that they can live a semi-extravagant lifestyle without employment based off the gains made on their invested assets, without touching principle (or ideally with that principle growing). 

Depending on how you define "semi-extravagant" lifestyle, and knowing that many people in this group either have no mortgage or they're keeping a mortgage only b/c the cost of borrowing is lower than what they can earn based on invested assets, this might not be a huge spending nut. Couple hundred grand a year. 

I'd say a fair number for where invested assets can give you that life might be around a $10M range. Anyone who is earning $20M a year is "rich" b/c they could stop after a year and be set for life, although in many cases they keep working because at that rate, why stop? 
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847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #23764 on: May 19, 2023, 10:32:03 AM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 19, 2023, 10:07:30 AM
Eh, I think your numbers are skewed to the opposite side of OAM's.

I'd more define it as someone with enough assets that they can live a semi-extravagant lifestyle without employment based off the gains made on their invested assets, without touching principle (or ideally with that principle growing).

Depending on how you define "semi-extravagant" lifestyle, and knowing that many people in this group either have no mortgage or they're keeping a mortgage only b/c the cost of borrowing is lower than what they can earn based on invested assets, this might not be a huge spending nut. Couple hundred grand a year.

I'd say a fair number for where invested assets can give you that life might be around a $10M range. Anyone who is earning $20M a year is "rich" b/c they could stop after a year and be set for life, although in many cases they keep working because at that rate, why stop?
Our early retirement goal was $5 Million. $10 would be better, of course, but not attainable at our income levels. And certainly not now with the wife retired and on fixed income.

Still trying to get to the $5 Million. I really don't think we will get there, unless our investments really take off like a 2020 run.

We should be fine. Not flying to Paris every month fine, but fine. To live lavishly, I too think you need $10 Million.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #23765 on: May 19, 2023, 11:02:01 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 10:32:03 AM
We should be fine. Not flying to Paris every month fine, but fine. To live lavishly, I too think you need $10 Million.
Exactly. At my age (44) I've discussed here the "eff you money" I'd need to quit my job. $5M (after taxes) wouldn't cut it. Just too many uncertainties given that I would then need to expect to live >40 years (hopefully) off that principle. I'd work long enough (5-10 years) to let that grow. 

$10-15M would be enough to walk away though. I'd have to spend the first few years not going nuts to allow it to continue growing, but I think it would be enough to ride out poor market conditions, to protect myself against inflation, etc, such that I'd never worry about money again for the rest of my life. 
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847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #23766 on: May 19, 2023, 11:13:19 AM »
Well, I'm 56 so I've had 12 more years to accumulate than you have. I'm planning to be done at 60.

My wife will be 62 this year and will start taking her SS immediately. She maxed out her payments so she will get max return.

I'll have 2 years without income, other than the money I get for my shares in the company.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #23767 on: May 19, 2023, 11:21:50 AM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 19, 2023, 11:02:01 AM
Exactly. At my age (44) I've discussed here the "eff you money" I'd need to quit my job. $5M (after taxes) wouldn't cut it. Just too many uncertainties given that I would then need to expect to live >40 years (hopefully) off that principle. I'd work long enough (5-10 years) to let that grow.

$10-15M would be enough to walk away though. I'd have to spend the first few years not going nuts to allow it to continue growing, but I think it would be enough to ride out poor market conditions, to protect myself against inflation, etc, such that I'd never worry about money again for the rest of my life.
Thus is almost exactly my thinking.

"Millionaire" doesn't mean what it used to. In California nearly everyone with a paid off mortgage is a Millionaire but a lot of those can barely afford to maintain that $1M house.

Even here in Ohio where my suburban 2,200 sqft house on a pond was > a quarter million and the cost of living is similarly lower $1M still wouldn't cut it unless you were say 80+ such that you could dip into principal but even then you'd run the risk of outliving your money.

If you had $5M invested the return at 2% would be $100k/yr. That 2% is conservative enough to leave room to cover inflation and for growth but $100k/yr also is a LONG ways short of the Jet Set (or as @betarhoalphadelta put it, flying to Paris every month and buying a Ferrari).

That is why I agree with the suggested $10-15M as being what I really consider "rich". At that point you'd have at least a Quarter Million in annual spending money so yeah, you're rich.
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847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #23768 on: May 19, 2023, 11:32:40 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 19, 2023, 11:21:50 AM
Thus is almost exactly my thinking.

"Millionaire" doesn't mean what it used to. In California nearly everyone with a paid off mortgage is a Millionaire but a lot of those can barely afford to maintain that $1M house.

Even here in Ohio where my suburban 2,200 sqft house on a pond was > a quarter million and the cost of living is similarly lower $1M still wouldn't cut it unless you were say 80+ such that you could dip into principal but even then you'd run the risk of outliving your money.

If you had $5M invested the return at 2% would be $100k/yr. That 2% is conservative enough to leave room to cover inflation and for growth but $100k/yr also is a LONG ways short of the Jet Set (or as @betarhoalphadelta put it, flying to Paris every month and buying a Ferrari).

That is why I agree with the suggested $10-15M as being what I really consider "rich". At that point you'd have at least a Quarter Million in annual spending money so yeah, you're rich.
You are on the younger side of the board, correct? I assume so because you have so many young kids, but you never know anymore.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #23769 on: May 19, 2023, 11:33:54 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 11:32:40 AM
You are on the younger side of the board, correct? I assume so because you have so many young kids, but you never know anymore.
I'm 48, just a late bloomer on the family thing. I did get married until after 40.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #23770 on: May 19, 2023, 11:49:18 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 19, 2023, 11:33:54 AM
I'm 48, just a late bloomer on the family thing. I did get married until after 40.
4th kid on the way, at 48? 

Yeah, you might need more than $15M :57:
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #23771 on: May 19, 2023, 11:51:24 AM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 19, 2023, 10:07:30 AM
Eh, I think your numbers are skewed to the opposite side of OAM's.
I noted the definition is individual, I gave mine, which is as valid as anyone's.  The calculation on what is needed for retirement has to include age at retirement.  Let's assume you are 65, you're life expectancy is 86 for a female and 83 for a male.  So, you need to cover 20 years, and have a safety net in case.  I didn't include SS in my own situation, but it's a nice "perk" indeed.  I actually could live off SS with my wife's as well.  It would be a simpler lifestyle.

Another definition of "rich" is you can do whatever you want without considering the cost (aside from bizarre things).  I consider costs a lot when we travel.  I imagine everyone here does as well.
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