header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: In other news ...

 (Read 1013193 times)

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71632
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #22498 on: April 14, 2023, 01:35:30 PM »
Lobbying is free speech 

Mdot21

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 14379
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #22499 on: April 14, 2023, 01:49:58 PM »
Lobbying is free speech
yeah, according to the supreme court. but they're wrong.

money doesn't = speech. never has. never will. money = money.

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12222
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #22500 on: April 14, 2023, 02:07:08 PM »
First of all, the whole Citizens United v FEC money=speech thing had nothing to do with lobbying. 

Second, contrary to popular belief, Citizens United was NOT the court case used to justify money=speech. That was SpeechNow v FEC. It struck down contribution limits to PACs (not directly to candidates) on the basis that PACs engaged in free speech, and you can't restrict the amount of speech someone is willing to fund based upon a monetary limit. 

Citizens United merely said, after SpeechNow, that corporations (which are merely groups formed by individuals, who have free speech rights individually) could not be barred from political speech because they were a corporate form. 

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71632
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #22501 on: April 14, 2023, 02:31:28 PM »
I don't see how we could somehow "ban" or limit "lobbying".  It is in fact free speech, period.

The various "industry group lobbys" basically speak for the collective interests of those groups, and may at times buy ads for their products, like "Beef, it's what's for dinner".

And they are allowed to contact politicians to express their interests and concerns.

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37604
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #22502 on: April 14, 2023, 02:47:57 PM »
it's the form of "contact" to the bank account as opposed to the ear, that bothers most
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71632
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #22503 on: April 14, 2023, 03:06:33 PM »
Sure, and some of that can be illegal.  But pure lobbying is free speech.

I was peripherally involved in a lobbying effort with our Congressman back in the day, it was pretty amusing.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71632
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #22504 on: April 14, 2023, 03:55:30 PM »
Lesson learned...

We're hosting a friend visiting from Cincy.  My wife wanted to take her to Ponce City Market.  OK, fine, turns out the road work near that place is a mess, and I parked across the street in another lot, with signs saying don't park here and leave.  I figured we'd be in and out, nobody was really watching, it's a very busy lot.

Came back after 1.5 hours and had boot on the car.

Bummer.  Well, you go to their on line site and enter CC info etc., I started worrying it was a scam anyway.  But it was raining and we needed to go.  $75 charge, and in about 3 minutes the boot was gone, I never did see anyone come near the car.

I don't know how they can tell that you walked across the street.

The main drag there has lanes shut down and it took "forever" to get out of the lot.  We usually walk there if we want to go.  The novelty of the place is pretty worn for me.  Our friend liked it.

My wife wanted me to drive around a bit to show her the area, so I did, but she started being on her phone the whole time.  As I decided to come home, I got onto another four lane road ... with a lane shut down.  I don't drive here enough to know such things.

I got home without further damage.  I prefer walking.  And the rain has stopped and it's sunny now.  We're headed to the Dogwood Festival tomorrow which fortunately is across the street.

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18899
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #22505 on: April 15, 2023, 05:57:35 AM »
Lobbying is free speech
Free speech has limiits, and lobbying should be set outside of it.  It's an attempt to gain an inordinate amount of money/priority to an idea that would otherwise have less.
I'm not even looking at it with the citizen's united thing, I'm specifying the plain, initial small-ball lobbying like the egg industry or the NRA, etc.
Here's the problem with them:  their influence and money, directed at politicians, makes their interests the equivalent of the twittersphere.......as in they are a tiny population that becomes overstated and screws everything up.  They're not representative of the people in terms of numbers, but do represent the financial interests of the few.
It's greedy horse shit and could very easily be omitted from the umbrella of free speech. 
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Mdot21

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 14379
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #22506 on: April 15, 2023, 06:38:58 AM »
Free speech has limiits, and lobbying should be set outside of it.  It's an attempt to gain an inordinate amount of money/priority to an idea that would otherwise have less.
I'm not even looking at it with the citizen's united thing, I'm specifying the plain, initial small-ball lobbying like the egg industry or the NRA, etc.
Here's the problem with them:  their influence and money, directed at politicians, makes their interests the equivalent of the twittersphere.......as in they are a tiny population that becomes overstated and screws everything up.  They're not representative of the people in terms of numbers, but do represent the financial interests of the few.
It's greedy horse shit and could very easily be omitted from the umbrella of free speech. 
it doesn't have to be omitted from the umbrella of free speech, because it is not even speech. period. corporations are not people, despite what courts have ruled.

free speech = the right of a human being to say, write, record, draw, paint, publish, express whatever the hell they want (with very few exceptions...such as direct threats of violence/incitment of violence). that's free speech. and that's it.

lobbying is tantamount to nothing more than legal bribery, and it should be illegal.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71632
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #22507 on: April 15, 2023, 06:58:31 AM »
I don't think one could write a law out lawing or limiting lobbying without infringing the free speech rights of an individual.

Maybe that's why we've had lobbying around since at least the Civil War and no such law has been passed.

Brutus Buckeye

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 11246
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #22508 on: April 15, 2023, 08:33:01 AM »

Of course Fro is trying to invent more ways to limit free speech. 

Next he'll be forcing us to use his preferred pronouns. 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71632
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #22509 on: April 15, 2023, 08:39:10 AM »
I'd guess most of us don't like "lobbying" and "lobbyists".  We know some of them are "retired" Congressmen et al. with "inside" pull.  And no doubt much of the lobbying done is against the public interest, or our interests.  But the core of it is a group of individuals seeking to influence legislation et al.  You and I could  write letters, no one wants to restrict that.  We usually don't because we feel they get lost in The System (and they do).

And if a lobbyist offers "benefits" to an elected official, they already are breaking the law.  That hardly means they don't, but it's already illegal.  And my guess is they have ways around the law,  they give "benefits" to cousins or friends or whatever (like the Bagmen of yore).

The other way (there are many) to influence is to form a PAC, if you have access to funds, and attack the politicians opponents.  I've suggested a rule where you can't in a political ad mention anyone's name but the guy you are supporting.

Anyway, I think this is akin to whack a mole, no matter what you pass, they'll figure a way around it, or file suit and delay things.

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37604
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #22510 on: April 15, 2023, 08:44:40 AM »
Harlan Crow, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas’s billionaire best friend???

Harlan would be my best friend.
No offense to anyone here.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 7868
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #22511 on: April 15, 2023, 09:25:11 AM »
Harlan Crow, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas’s billionaire best friend???

Harlan would be my best friend.
No offense to anyone here.
This was good. Very good. 

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.