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Topic: In other news ...

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847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #20454 on: December 17, 2022, 11:21:42 AM »
Quote from: Honestbuckeye on December 17, 2022, 11:13:30 AM
Requiring an ID to validate who you are.  Interesting.  To drive a car.  To purchase alcohol or tobacco. To join the military. To check in to the majority of hospitals or doctors offices.  The list is virtually endless.

But not to vote.  You just have to laugh.

Why debate it badge.  It’s just further evidence of the lunacy that surrounds us.

The best part of it is- virtually nobody pushing that narrative- that is racist.l, actually believes it. Nobody.
Exactly.

This policy has me flabbergasted.

Should being able to vote be as hard as buying a firearm?
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longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #20455 on: December 17, 2022, 11:21:53 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 11:15:29 AM
My opinion on this is that it is a partisan talking point, just as there is one on the Right as well.  It's something claimed to divide people into groups and get them incensed.


I dont understand how a state wanting to make sure a voter is who they are supposed to be a partisan talking point

calling this racist is very much a partisan talking point
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #20456 on: December 17, 2022, 11:23:57 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 11:15:29 AM
My opinion on this is that it is a partisan talking point, just as there is one on the Right as well.  It's something claimed to divide people into groups and get them incensed.


True However, it was introduced as a Supreme Court decision in this thread by 847. 

Not as a partisan talking point.  As a matter of policy and law.

So- when you strip away Partisan talking points you still must decide if you think this policy and law is proper and correct or not.  Like everyone else you are entitled to your own opinion.

To me- it is laughable. But if you think otherwise I respect it. There is no remotely credible basis for it. There is plenty of common sense basis for the opposing view.  Very few things are that clear. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #20457 on: December 17, 2022, 11:26:30 AM »
I think fake voters voting is a partisan issue, not a real issue.  I don't mind requiring ID, but I really do not think many go out of their way to vote without one.

Harvesting happens, as it always has.

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847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #20458 on: December 17, 2022, 11:31:50 AM »
Quote from: Honestbuckeye on December 17, 2022, 11:23:57 AM
True However, it was introduced as a Supreme Court decision in this thread by 847. 

Not as a partisan talking point.  As a matter of policy and law.

So- when you strip away Partisan talking points you still must decide if you think this policy and law is proper and correct or not.  Like everyone else you are entitled to your own opinion.

To me- it is laughable. But if you think otherwise I respect it. There is no remotely credible basis for it. There is plenty of common sense basis for the opposing view.  Very few things are that clear. 
Correct.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #20459 on: December 17, 2022, 11:32:29 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 11:26:30 AM
I think fake voters voting is a partisan issue, not a real issue.  I don't mind requiring ID, but I really do not think many go out of their way to vote without one.

Harvesting happens, as it always has.


Interesting CD.  

So, ballot harvesting in combination with late changing ( by judiciary means versus legislative)
laws that allow ballots counted without not only ID required ( like Georgia you mentioned), but not even requiring an attempt at validation / is ok with you?  You don’t think that is, and has been a recipe for Major fraudulent voting?
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #20460 on: December 17, 2022, 11:33:42 AM »
I can't see a single individual showing up to vote illegally often at all.  Same with illegals, it probably happens some out of confusion.

Ballot harvesting does happen, often, and usually to sway local elections.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #20461 on: December 17, 2022, 11:37:28 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 11:33:42 AM
I can't see a single individual showing up to vote illegally often at all.  Same with illegals, it probably happens some out of confusion.

Ballot harvesting does happen, often, and usually to sway local elections.
Yes I’m not debating those who show up to vote.

so if the Michigan Democratic Party mails out 1 million ballots to Detroit residence who they believe are registered Democrats, then hires and pays for Democratic ballot harvesting firms to go out and collect those ballots, And they bring 800,000 of them back, do you believe that a meaningful percentage of those 800,000 ballots were actually ever completed by the party who received them in the mail?
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #20462 on: December 17, 2022, 11:39:59 AM »
I don't know how a political party would be able to mail out actual ballots.

I had not read anything about that.  Ballots here are coded so a fake ballot would get tossed by the machine.

Fake ballots should be illegal, I agree with that.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #20463 on: December 17, 2022, 11:46:24 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 11:39:59 AM
I don't know how a political party would be able to mail out actual ballots.

I had not read anything about that.  Ballots here are coded so a fake ballot would get tossed by the machine.

Fake ballots should be illegal, I agree with that.
The ballots are real.  They are mailed out to people who are, or were residents of the City. 
Ballot Harvesters are PAID to collect them by knocking on doors, even “ encouraging “ residents to properly complete them. 
These harvested ballots are brought in, often on Election Day, by the van load. 
In most large cities, there is no real attempt to validate them. They are counted.

One party has mastered this process, and continues to push for more of it and even looser validation, dates of acceptance, etc.  Why do you think that is the case?
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bayareabadger

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #20464 on: December 17, 2022, 12:19:37 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 10:21:57 AM
I really don't understand this. Racially motivated? Requiring presenting an ID is racist?

An ID is required for practically ANYTHING in life. An acceptable ID is very easy to get.

NC Supreme Court strikes down voter ID constitutional amendment | The Hill
My man, you must love long trips on public buses and sitting for hours in the DMV


Hmmm. Reading through, the decision seems a stretch. Racially motivated seems to mean politically motivated, with race as sort of a proxy. One could argue the angling of the decision has either political or racial motivations. They also fall back on the state's history of this sort of funny business when if comes to suppressing the black vote (turned out "voter fraud" was a big issue in the 50s and 60s too). 

I find myself at a middle. On the one hand, voter ID seems mostly benign. On the other, these laws seem to address a problem that is yet pretty unproven, and seems like it would potentially burden some people. On the other, it seems like the some of the workarounds should work fine. On the other, I'm skeptical this isn't motivated by a bit of a power grab, but I suppose I should also be skeptical that an expanded franchise doesn't potentially help one party over another (layers of funny business, I suppose). The No. 1 thing I can't figure out is what happens if you try to vote without an ID. I had to give mine, as did everyone around me. 

The No. 1 thing I'd be interested in is how many people are actually voting without an ID. We know who votes in each election. We have a big list of various forms of ID. I assume a proponent of ID laws would want to demonstrate the number of questionable votes. Though if it was low, perhaps not. Also perhaps not if there was a worry that group would be analyzed in some way that made the enterprise look bad. 

The timing element is interesting. The Supreme Court is gonna flip. There's no super majority in the legislature and a split between legislature and governor. So this would likely be on hold until 2024. Such is life in that arena. 
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longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #20465 on: December 17, 2022, 12:28:18 PM »
Quote from: Honestbuckeye on December 17, 2022, 11:46:24 AM
The ballots are real.  They are mailed out to people who are, or were residents of the City. 
Ballot Harvesters are PAID to collect them by knocking on doors, even “ encouraging “ residents to properly complete them. 
These harvested ballots are brought in, often on Election Day, by the van load. 
In most large cities, there is no real attempt to validate them. They are counted.

One party has mastered this process, and continues to push for more of it and even looser validation, dates of acceptance, etc.  Why do you think that is the case?
The main problem here is documenting that all ballots collected were actually turned in

It would be very easy selectively turn in ballots collected
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847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #20466 on: December 17, 2022, 12:30:42 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 12:19:37 PM
My man, you must love long trips on public buses and sitting for hours in the DMV

There are at least 25 locations in and around Charlotte alone. 
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utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #20467 on: December 17, 2022, 12:46:16 PM »
I don't see any issue with asking people to get to the DMV once every 5-7 years or so.  It's just a part of living in civilization.  I'd prefer not to pay taxes but that, too, is part of living in civilization.  If you care about voting, it's a small price to pay.

And as has been noted, many places allow online renewal now, at least every other time.
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