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Topic: In other news ...

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utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13888 on: February 27, 2022, 02:33:44 PM »
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13889 on: February 27, 2022, 02:36:49 PM »
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13890 on: February 27, 2022, 02:37:05 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:31:31 PM
The most effective propaganda has kernels of truth.

Putin claims Ukrainian leadership are neoNazis to justify his invasion, at least for internal consumption.
Exactly right!

There are kernels to truth- but they get stretched out massively and to the max to the point of insanity and fantasy. And I suspect as you said, his entire schtick of "Ukraine = all Neo-Nazis!" is to help sell this invasion to the Russian people (US does this as well) - and as we've seen from the protests all over Russia - a good chunk of his people ain't buying it.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13891 on: February 27, 2022, 02:38:13 PM »
I've even read some here claiming some significant portion of Ukraine ARE NeoNazis.

well, not some, just one.
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13892 on: February 27, 2022, 02:41:46 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:36:49 PM
Watch | Facebook
speaking of Facebook, they've hilariously reversed course and have allowed discussion of Ukraine's neo-nazi Azov Battalion forces on their platform once war broke out. The Azov Battalion and all mention or discussion of them was previously banned from Facebook. Seems incredibly strange to me.


https://theintercept.com/2022/02/24/ukraine-facebook-azov-battalion-russia/
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13893 on: February 27, 2022, 02:42:44 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:38:13 PM
I've even read some here claiming some significant portion of Ukraine ARE NeoNazis.

well, not some, just one.
well then you need to re-read and have better reading and comprehension skills, because no one has said a significant portion of Ukraine are neo-nazis.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13894 on: February 27, 2022, 02:48:24 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 02:23:22 PM
And that totally explains why huge chunk of the Ukrainian population considers Stepan Bandera - a literal nazi collaborator - a hero in Ukraine- and the new right-wing government of Ukraine that the US helped put in power in 2014 - has even renamed streets for him all over their country. The new government in 2014 even renamed a street in Kyiv from Moscow Avenue to Stepan Bandera Avenue.
I'd opine if some HUGE CHUNK of Ukraine considers a neoNazi a HERO, well, that could mean a HUGE CHUNK at least sympathizes with neoNazi philosophies.

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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13895 on: February 27, 2022, 02:57:01 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:48:24 PM
I'd opine if some HUGE CHUNK of Ukraine considers a neoNazi a HERO, well, that could mean a HUGE CHUNK at least sympathizes with neoNazi philosophies.
yeah, I wouldn't say that just because they find a nazi collaborator a national hero that it makes them nazis. but it is a major problem. the Yanukovych government by the way - which the US helped overthrow in 2014 - actually revoked Bandera's official status as a national hero in Ukraine in 2011. It wasn't until the new government in 2014 took over that they started renaming streets for Bandera.

the people elected a jewish guy to be the president. pretty obvious the entire country isn't neo nazis.

but that does not mean that Ukraine doesn't have a neo-nazi problem. they do. and the US has been feeding that problem, not helping it.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13896 on: February 27, 2022, 02:58:17 PM »
So, it would appear you think a significant portion of Ukraine are neoNazis, as reflected by their support for this Bandera fellow, who I always viewed as a kind of bit actor.

How NATO's expansion helped drive Putin to invade Ukraine : NPR
How NATO's expansion helped drive Putin to invade Ukraine : NPR
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13897 on: February 27, 2022, 03:03:34 PM »
EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen announced that the EU would close the airspace above its member states to Russian-owned, Russian-registered or Russian-controlled aircraft.
“These aircraft will no more be able to land in, take off or overly the territory of the EU,” von der Leyen said in a statement.
Von der Leyen also announced new military assistance for Ukraine, a move she described as a "watershed moment."
"For the first time ever, the European Union will finance the purchase and delivery of weapons and other equipment to a country that is under attack," she said.
Her announcement came on the same day that several European leaders announced plans to provide military equipment to Ukraine. Denmark's prime minister, Mette Frederiksen, said her country would send 2,700 anti-tank weapons to Ukraine, while Sweden's minister for foreign affairs announced a shipment of 5,000 anti-tank weapons, 5,000 helmets, 5,000 body shields and 135,000 field rations.
Von der Leyen laid out additional punishment on Russia, announcing that the EU would ban Russian media outlets RT and Sputnik as well as their subsidiaries.
The commission will also impose new sanctions on President Alexander Lukashenko's regime in Belarus, a key ally of Russia. Those sanctions will target key economic sectors including mineral fuels, tobacco, wood and timber, cement, iron and steel.
Von der Leyen said the commission was mobilizing to help its eastern member states take in and care for the many Ukrainian refugees escaping the violence.
"President Zelensky's leadership and his bravery and the resilience of the Ukrainian people are outstanding and impressive," she said. "We welcome with open arms those Ukrainians who have to flee from Putin's bombs and I am proud of the warm welcome that Europeans have given them," she said.


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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13898 on: February 27, 2022, 03:05:33 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:58:17 PM
So, it would appear you think a significant portion of Ukraine are neoNazis, as reflected by their support for this Bandera fellow, who I always viewed as a kind of bit actor.
no. that's not my view. my view is that it is a problem that there is a not insignificant portion of Ukraine who view the guy as a hero. i wouldn't say huge problem- but definitely a problem. Yanockvuch was 100% right to revoke his status as a national hero- the guy was a nazi collaborator. 

Now having literal neo-nazis like Andriy Parubiy and Oleh Tyahnybok as pivotal figures in the overthrow of 2014 and the interim government that followed- the current Ukraine gov't funding childrens programs for neo-nazi hate groups like C14 - and also officially incorporating a neo-nazi hate group like Azov Batallion into their armed forces and giving them political cover - well those are all huge problems.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13899 on: February 27, 2022, 03:06:31 PM »
This is a minor personal note, but I was really looking forward to seeing St. Petersburg in May, I had read a good bit about it.  This is trivial in the overall scope of things of course.  It would been the highlight of the cruise.  I had some inkling of visiting Moscow someday, if I do, it will be rather far in the future I suspect.

Every day this struggle lasts puts Putin in a more desperate position.  I am hoping somehow the powers that be will replace him, I don't expect that, but they much be getting annoyed.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13900 on: February 27, 2022, 03:08:28 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 03:05:33 PM
no. that's not my view. my view is that it is a problem that there is a not insignificant portion of Ukraine who view the guy as a hero. i wouldn't say huge problem- but definitely a problem. Yanockvuch was 100% right to revoke his status as a national hero- the guy was a nazi collaborator.

"Huge chunks" has now shrunk to "not insignificant".  Perhaps a plurality is in the offing, maybe even someday minority, or perhaps even mostly in eastern Ukraine some view him as a hero.



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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13901 on: February 27, 2022, 03:10:07 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 03:03:34 PM
EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen announced that the EU would close the airspace above its member states to Russian-owned, Russian-registered or Russian-controlled aircraft.
“These aircraft will no more be able to land in, take off or overly the territory of the EU,” von der Leyen said in a statement.
Von der Leyen also announced new military assistance for Ukraine, a move she described as a "watershed moment."
"For the first time ever, the European Union will finance the purchase and delivery of weapons and other equipment to a country that is under attack," she said.
Her announcement came on the same day that several European leaders announced plans to provide military equipment to Ukraine. Denmark's prime minister, Mette Frederiksen, said her country would send 2,700 anti-tank weapons to Ukraine, while Sweden's minister for foreign affairs announced a shipment of 5,000 anti-tank weapons, 5,000 helmets, 5,000 body shields and 135,000 field rations.
Von der Leyen laid out additional punishment on Russia, announcing that the EU would ban Russian media outlets RT and Sputnik as well as their subsidiaries.
The commission will also impose new sanctions on President Alexander Lukashenko's regime in Belarus, a key ally of Russia. Those sanctions will target key economic sectors including mineral fuels, tobacco, wood and timber, cement, iron and steel.
Von der Leyen said the commission was mobilizing to help its eastern member states take in and care for the many Ukrainian refugees escaping the violence.
"President Zelensky's leadership and his bravery and the resilience of the Ukrainian people are outstanding and impressive," she said. "We welcome with open arms those Ukrainians who have to flee from Putin's bombs and I am proud of the warm welcome that Europeans have given them," she said.
Ron Burgundy GIF
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