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Topic: In other news ...

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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13566 on: February 25, 2022, 12:34:54 PM »
So, there was never any such agreement, maybe a few words were said, maybe they were misinterpreted, maybe later Administrations didn't agree.

No agreement, at all, none, it's russian propaganda.

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13567 on: February 25, 2022, 12:37:22 PM »
Dumbest post....ever?


A - no amount of armed citizens is going to hold off a 21st-century foreign power from taking over
B - the argument for armed citizens is to defend against it's own tyrannical government


Tell that to the goat herders in Afghanistan. 

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13568 on: February 25, 2022, 12:40:11 PM »
So, there was never any such agreement, maybe a few words were said, maybe they were misinterpreted, maybe later Administrations didn't agree.

No agreement, at all, none, it's russian propaganda.
dude I linked you the declassified documents. there's like nearly 40 of them. they were pretty cut and dry and fascinating to read. US/Europe leaders pretty adamant that they wouldn't be expanding if Germany reunited. so they must've been lying through their teeth...but I don't think they were.

the problem is power in the US and European countries constantly changes. that's a great thing- democracy and all that jazz. But one administration comes in- has different views and ideas. Bush I was only in power for one term. He kept to the assurances however- because well...he made them. Clinton came in- bye bye assurances and it's been the same for every administration. Clinton, Bush II, Obama, and even Trump administrations all saw NATO expansion.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13569 on: February 25, 2022, 12:49:26 PM »
The New Yorker article covers it pretty well.  I think the rest is Russian propaganda.

No agreement is worth spit unless it's written and ratified, and even then it can be changed.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13570 on: February 25, 2022, 12:50:21 PM »
Screen-Shot-2022-02-25-at-12-49-16-PM

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13571 on: February 25, 2022, 12:55:16 PM »
The New Yorker article covers it pretty well.  I think the rest is Russian propaganda.

No agreement is worth spit unless it's written and ratified, and even then it can be changed.
bolded - I don't necessarily think it's Russian propaganda. Assurances were definitely made- you can read the meetings/conversations- it's all there. They probably do feel like they were duped/tricked/slighted- and I don't doubt that having NATO (a military alliance) surround them probably does not give them the warm and fuzzies.

underlined - I agree 100%. Even if written/ratified agreements can be worthless. US like most countries do what suits them best when it suits them. US is a signatory to Budapest Memorandum - they were suppose to come to Ukraine's defense in 2014 - they didn't. Not doing it now either.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13572 on: February 25, 2022, 12:58:31 PM »
Ergo, there was never an agreement, it's stupid to claim there was, and Putin propaganda.


Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13573 on: February 25, 2022, 01:07:42 PM »
Ergo, there was never an agreement, it's stupid to claim there was, and Putin propaganda.
Has he claimed there was an agreement? Or simply that Russia was lied to? Those are very different things. Think it's pretty clear they were played/lied to/misled.

And in December he sent the US/Biden administration a list of things he was looking for in negotiations with the US/NATO. #1 on that list was a written agreement with guarantees NATO would quit expanding eastward- with #1 bullet on the list being that Ukraine would not become a member of NATO and would remain neutral. Biden administration said we'll negotiate with you on everything- except that. So the #1 thing he was looking for, the Biden administration wouldn't even talk to him about.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13574 on: February 25, 2022, 01:11:44 PM »
Federal Reserve passes new rules which bars Fed officials from trading stocks, crypto, and bonds.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKgOntJpr5k

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13575 on: February 25, 2022, 01:17:16 PM »
Vladimir Putin says the West 'has ignored' Russia's key security concerns and NATO 'screwed us over' - CNN
Vladimir Putin says the West 'has ignored' Russia's key security concerns and NATO 'screwed us over' - CNN

Putin ended the news conference with a short lecture about what he characterized as NATO's history of deceptions, claiming that the alliance promised to expand "not an inch" eastward. "They said one thing, they did another," Putin said. "As people say, they screwed us over, well they simply deceived us."
Russian officials have repeatedly made this claim in the past; the US and NATO have denied making such promises.
Putin also reiterated his opposition to the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO, and said Kyiv was attempting to retake Crimea -- the Ukrainian territory annexed by Russia in 2014 -- by military force, potentially bringing the alliance into open conflict with Russia.



Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13576 on: February 25, 2022, 01:21:01 PM »
Putin makes his spy chief almost piss his pants....and then the spy chief says the quiet part out loud...."I support the proposal about the entry of the Donetsk and Luhansk's People's Republics into the Russian Federation." WHOOPS. Lol.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-u8EoWcI


Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13578 on: February 25, 2022, 01:23:15 PM »
Vladimir Putin says the West 'has ignored' Russia's key security concerns and NATO 'screwed us over' - CNN
Vladimir Putin says the West 'has ignored' Russia's key security concerns and NATO 'screwed us over' - CNN

Putin ended the news conference with a short lecture about what he characterized as NATO's history of deceptions, claiming that the alliance promised to expand "not an inch" eastward. "They said one thing, they did another," Putin said. "As people say, they screwed us over, well they simply deceived us."
Russian officials have repeatedly made this claim in the past; the US and NATO have denied making such promises.
Putin also reiterated his opposition to the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO, and said Kyiv was attempting to retake Crimea -- the Ukrainian territory annexed by Russia in 2014 -- by military force, potentially bringing the alliance into open conflict with Russia.
Yeah I see where he's saying they were deceived/screwed over/lied to - which if you look at declassified gov't cables and documents from like 5 different governments - they kinda were. 

Not seeing where he claimed there was any sort of written agreement or treaty.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13579 on: February 25, 2022, 01:31:46 PM »

thought you looked into his eyes and saw his soul, and that he was a good man and all that jazz, dipshit. lol.


https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1496846064023834630?s=20&t=7yPqqV-11IZUc1msI99MGA


 

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