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Topic: In other news ...

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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12922 on: February 18, 2022, 11:05:20 AM »
In 2006, then-president Bush used a NATO summit in Latvia to pressure allies to increase their defense spending at the height of the U.S.-led NATO military campaign in Afghanistan.
Two years later, he used his final NATO summit to do the same thing. “At this summit, I will encourage our European partners to increase their defense investments to support both NATO and EU operations,” Bush said at the opening of the 2008 summit in Bucharest, Romania. “America believes if Europeans invest in their own defense, they will also be stronger and more capable when we deploy together,” he said.
And despite the many differences between Bush’s foreign policy and that of Obama, his successor, one thing the two leaders agreed upon was the need for more defense spending from NATO allies.
For Obama, the issue of NATO defense spending became especially important during his second term, when Russia’s arming of separatists in Ukraine and subsequent annexation of Crimea in 2014 stunned the West.

“If we’ve got collective defense, it means that everybody’s got to chip in, and I have had some concerns about a diminished level of defense spending among some of our partners in NATO. Not all, but many,” Obama said at a press conference in Brussels in March 2014, less than a week after Russia declared that Crimea was now a Russian state.





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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12923 on: February 18, 2022, 11:11:39 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 11:04:29 AM
1.5% is not 2.0%, and Trump didn't impact this at all.  There was a silly conspiracy notion about NATO expansion that you bought into and was clearly false, but have at it, par for the course.

And Bush and Obama both PUBLICLY excoriated NATO countries to spend more.  They even agreed to do it by 2024, and then of course reneged.
jesus christ man you really have no idea what you're talking about. read the god damn declassified documents for yourself before you mouth off about it being clearly false or anyone buying into a conspiracy theory. try reading the f***king declassified US gov't documents pal. I linked them for you like 3 f**king times. They are very explicit in US and Western European governments promising Gorbachev NATO would not expand east. Period. End of discussion. It's all right there in the documents. READ THEM.

And LOL give me a break. Bush and Obama were career politicians. Trump was a reality tv show star. Any criticisms Bush/Obama threw NATO countries way to spend more was mild as hell and weak sauce in comparison to the Orange One. Trump was bashing them non-stop while he was running and once he got into office - and even openly questioned whether to withdraw or disband NATO. Bush and Obama rarely talked about NATO, Western Europe ripping the US off, or withdrawing from/disbanding NATO. Trump did almost non-stop.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12924 on: February 18, 2022, 11:13:44 AM »
Your post was clearly false on both points.

Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says “No” (brookings.edu)

We now have a very authoritative voice from Moscow confirming this understanding. Russia behind the Headlines has published an interview with Gorbachev, who was Soviet president during the discussions and treaty negotiations concerning German reunification. The interviewer asked why Gorbachev did not “insist that the promises made to you [Gorbachev]—particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East—be legally encoded?” Gorbachev replied: “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”

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Gorbachev continued that “The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.”



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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12925 on: February 18, 2022, 11:24:29 AM »
jesus christ. don't bring me some weasel words from some neoliberal think tank bullshit like brookings that has quotes from Gorbachev just trying to save face because he was duped and played like an idiot. think tanks are one of the reasons why this country is failing miserably right now. 
https://www.mic.com/articles/150870/a-major-dc-think-tank-has-sold-out-to-corporations-reports-new-york-times

Read this. 
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

And then click on the declassified documents and read them in whole. Thanks. 


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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12926 on: February 18, 2022, 11:28:08 AM »
It is clearly a falsehood spread by Putin and his ilk, with no basis in fact.

At any rate, I remain half convinced this is a ploy by Putin to wrangle concessions, the West is clearly talking about holding talks.  Talks about what?  

Maybe Putin wants Nordstream II to be approved, and he won't invade.
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12927 on: February 18, 2022, 11:28:52 AM »
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/commentary/infographic/despite-covid-19-pandemic-nato-defense-spending-continues-to-rise/


"Eleven allies now meet the 2 percent-of-real gross domestic product (GDP) threshold established at the 2014 Wales Summit, up from just three allies in 2014."


So, to recap, when Obama was in office just 3 countries were at the 2%. Once Trump left office, it jumped from 3 countries to 11. And every country across the board spent more and committed to spending more in the future. Funny how that works- if you constantly bully, trash and put very public pressure on a bunch of countries and an entire organization they all start to get their shit together.
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12928 on: February 18, 2022, 11:30:06 AM »
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12929 on: February 18, 2022, 11:51:52 AM »
MSNBC caught spreading neo-nazi propaganda/misinfo. Will they get censored or have their video taken down? Nope.

Notice the insignia on the soldiers uniforms- it's Nazi SS. They are the Azov Battalion - a Ukrainian far-right neo-nazi extremist group. LOL.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10515451/Babushka-battalion-training-Ukraine-organised-neo-NAZIS.html

US State dept/CIA has been funding/training/arming literal neo-nazis in Ukraine. Now MSNBC is doing tv propaganda for them. Lol.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwynHUEPo54
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Drew4UTk

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12930 on: February 18, 2022, 12:00:39 PM »
Speaking of tanks... the DoD/DoS just authorized the sale of 250 M1 Abrams to Poland.  

Wanna know what's going on? THAT is what's going on.  Rumors of war and war by proxy... lots of cash being made because of... 
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12931 on: February 18, 2022, 12:04:07 PM »
Quote from: Drew4UTk on February 18, 2022, 12:00:39 PM
Speaking of tanks... the DoD/DoS just authorized the sale of 250 M1 Abrams to Poland. 

Wanna know what's going on? THAT is what's going on.  Rumors of war and war by proxy... lots of cash being made because of...
bingo.

As for Ukraine and that story I just posted about MSNBC being stupid as hell by doing a warm and fuzzy PR piece for a neo-nazi group - well US gov't has been backing neo-nazi militia groups in Ukraine for years now. Call me crazy, but I am most definitely NOT OK with US support/tax-dollars going to nazi's in any way shape or form.


https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/americas-collusion-with-neo-nazis/
https://jacobinmag.com/2022/01/cia-neo-nazi-training-ukraine-russia-putin-biden-nato
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/congress-has-removed-a-ban-on-funding-neo-nazis-from-its-year-end-spending-bill/
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12932 on: February 18, 2022, 12:16:03 PM »
Polish Defence Ministry confirms plan to buy M1 Abrams tanks (defensenews.com)

Dated July 14, 2021.

The USMC is getting rid of its M1A1s, might be from that batch, though the above sale is M1A2s.
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847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12933 on: February 18, 2022, 12:24:19 PM »
This is a Ukraine problem. But, they are trying to make it everyone else's problem.

Kyiv mayor pleads with US, Germany over threat of Russian invasion: 'We can't defend our country' | Fox News
Kyiv mayor pleads with US, Germany over threat of Russian invasion: 'We can't defend our country' | Fox News
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U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12934 on: February 18, 2022, 12:26:58 PM »
In 2014, when allies agreed that all members should meet NATO’s 2% spending level by 2024, only the U.S., Greece and the United Kingdom were in compliance. Now, NATO data shows Romania, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Lithuania, France and Norway meeting the target.

Trump has taken credit for an overall boost in allied defense spending in recent years, and Stoltenberg has praised the U.S. president for making it a priority. But the increases date back to 2014 when Russia’s military intervention in Ukraine led allies to reverse a downward trend in spending that began when the Cold War ended.

Yay, some small countries and France got to 2%, after Obama harrangued them about it.

Yay.
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12935 on: February 18, 2022, 12:40:08 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 18, 2022, 12:24:19 PM
This is a Ukraine problem. But, they are trying to make it everyone else's problem.

Kyiv mayor pleads with US, Germany over threat of Russian invasion: 'We can't defend our country' | Fox News
Kyiv mayor pleads with US, Germany over threat of Russian invasion: 'We can't defend our country' | Fox News
yeah, I'm sick and tired about talking about Ukraine and Russia at this point. What will be will be. And quite frankly I truly do not give a squirt of piss if Russia invades Ukraine. Not the US's problem and it's not worth one drop of American blood or a single penny of US treasure.

Interesting fact: former Heavyweight champion boxer Vitali Klitchscko is the mayor of Kiev. If he's so concerned about the defense of his country, maybe he should challenge Putin in a fist fight to the death. Winner takes the others country, loser well... dies. I'd pay serious money on PPV to watch that.
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