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Topic: In other news ...

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utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12908 on: February 18, 2022, 10:30:57 AM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 10:28:02 AM
UK is America's lapdog. They are a toothless, worthless peon now. Our little pet dogs really. Kinda sad they went from the worlds greatest power to America's greatest bitch.

Russia has nearly 10x the active military personnel and nearly 25x the reserve military personnel. UK don't want no war with Russia. They are bluffing.
I don't think they're bluffing.

I think you're 100% correct when you say they are doing the US's bidding, which means THEY know they have the US's backing.

And although you and I disagree with whether or not the rest of Europe should worry about Russia, we both certainly agree that we want the US to stay out of it.
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12909 on: February 18, 2022, 10:31:36 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 10:07:33 AM
Well sure, it's what Putin's already been doing for the past 8 years.

The question is, why spend all the money for this recent large military build-up along the Ukrainian border at all?  Clearly he's pushing for something different, something new.  What's his goal?
right...he's been doing the same thing for 8 years. And now all of a sudden, he's going to launch an invasion? Makes no sense. Not going to be an invasion now either imo. Everyone should really just calm down and stop buying into the bullshit of the US state department/"intelligence community" and a dipshit President who has dementia. These assholes have been saying for 6 months an invasion is imminent. Whooops...no invasion! These are the biggest liars on planet earth. They lied about Afghanistan for 20 years. They lied about WMD's and Saddam having connections to Al-Qaeda. They lied about Libya. They lied about Syria. They lie about everything. It's literally their job to lie to the American people.
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12910 on: February 18, 2022, 10:34:17 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 10:28:38 AM
Our merchants of war are opportunistic assholes but they're not the ones that chose to escalate and increase the levels of troops stationed along the border of the Ukraine.  They didn't somehow force Putin to do this.

Unless you're suggesting that the American war hawks are working in conjunction with Putin?  It's an interesting theory but not sure there's much chance of it being real.
expanding NATO is what they want. larger that little military alliance is - the more arms and weapons they get to sell. NATO countries are required to spend 2% of GDP on defense. Most of them didn't- but when Trump got in there and bitched and moaned at them- they all started to spend at that 2% or more. Expansion of NATO = more arm sales - which is why even though the US promised it would never expand one inch eastward, it continually has.
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12911 on: February 18, 2022, 10:41:43 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 10:30:57 AM
I don't think they're bluffing.

I think you're 100% correct when you say they are doing the US's bidding, which means THEY know they have the US's backing.

And although you and I disagree with whether or not the rest of Europe should worry about Russia, we both certainly agree that we want the US to stay out of it.
I mean I just fail to see it. Aside from him wanting buffer states near his borders and maintaining a sphere of influence over very close bordering neighbors - which you could say the same for every freaking power- the guy has not exactly been on a world domination tear. He's not going to revive the USSR. He's not a communist or true believer. He's a mafia thug business man who has stolen hundreds of billions from his own country. And he seemingly wants to just to continue doing that- while eliminating any threats to him inside Russia and very near Russia.

He's a danger to his own people in his own country who try and cross him, but to the world? He's been in power for nearly a quarter century in Russia. And I just don't see the evidence of that.

He's got more reason to fear the US/Western Europe than we have to fear him. The US is the worlds lone super power (although China is a'comin') and the US is still by far the worlds greatest military power. And the US has used the military power to bomb, invade, and destroy countries all over the world- many of these wars on bullsh*t lies (IRAQ...COUGH COUGH). And the US bullies Western Europe/NATO to go along with them. Really only France has ever had the balls to stand up to the US war machine and refuse to participate in wars the US tells NATO they've got to participate in.

Russia? They really haven't. Since Putin has been in power, has he gone to countries half way around the world from Russia and completely destroyed them? No? Well, we have. Several.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12912 on: February 18, 2022, 10:46:38 AM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 10:34:17 AM
expanding NATO is what they want. larger that little military alliance is - the more arms and weapons they get to sell. NATO countries are required to spend 2% of GDP on defense. Most of them didn't- but when Trump got in there and bitched and moaned at them- they all started to spend at that 2% or more. Expansion of NATO = more arm sales - which is why even though the US promised it would never expand one inch eastward, it continually has.
This is false.  Every president makes a spiel about spending 2%, very few of them do it, and they ignored Trump on this point.  This is completely false.

And the US never promised Russia anything about NATO expansion, that is another lie.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12913 on: February 18, 2022, 10:48:10 AM »
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MrNubbz

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12914 on: February 18, 2022, 10:48:24 AM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 10:28:02 AM
UK is America's lapdog. They are a toothless, worthless peon now. Our little pet dogs really. Kinda sad they went from the worlds greatest power to America's greatest bitch.

Russia has nearly 10x the active military personnel and nearly 25x the reserve military personnel. UK don't want no war with Russia. They are bluffing.
Not so sure about that by geography their borders are closed.Not getting the influx of new arrivals to feed 
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12915 on: February 18, 2022, 10:55:47 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:46:38 AM
This is false.  Every president makes a spiel about spending 2%, very few of them do it, and they ignored Trump on this point.  This is completely false.

And the US never promised Russia anything about NATO expansion, that is another lie.
No, it's not false. Thanks for posting the graphic. They are all basically right at 1.5% (VERY NEAR 2%) or more except for Luxembourg, Spain, and Belgium. The spending on defense without a doubt across the board increased once Trump got in there and bullied, bitched, and moaned at them. Compare it to previous years, it's gone up - way up - and it was in part because of the Orange Ahole.

And YES, the US did promise the USSR that. That is not another lie. I've already linked and cited you the evidence for that- multiple times- official declassified government documents from 4 different governments- which for whatever reason you failed to read and continue to ignore. Just because you don't want to believe something- doesn't mean it's not true. It is a FACT that President Bush I and Secretary of State James Baker gave explicit assurances to Mikhail Gorbachev that NATO would NOT expand eastward if USSR. It's just a fact. You saying that it is a lie, is a lie.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12916 on: February 18, 2022, 10:55:58 AM »
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12917 on: February 18, 2022, 10:57:16 AM »
I posted stuff earlier on NATO expansion that showed your story is a lie, and nobody upped NATO spending because of what Trump said, and most are short of 2% and will remain short.

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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12918 on: February 18, 2022, 10:58:28 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:55:58 AM
Trump pushes NATO allies to spend more, but so did Obama and Bush (cnbc.com)
yeah, they might've did it privately and not rail on it. you never heard them talking about NATO publicly. 

Trump was bashing NATO constantly and openly talking about even pulling out. My guess is the very public and constant nature of Trump trashing them and openly talking about pulling out- is what actually got them to...you know...spend more.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12919 on: February 18, 2022, 11:01:02 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:21:20 AM
I hear Singapore is ultra expensive, I've never been, and I'd guess Tokyo is up there.
Both are places on my list to visit at some point... Tokyo higher priority than Singapore, but I've heard AWESOME things about Singapore.
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12920 on: February 18, 2022, 11:01:13 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:57:16 AM
I posted stuff earlier on NATO expansion that showed your story is a lie, and nobody upped NATO spending because of what Trump said, and most are short of 2% and will remain short.
NO you didn't post jackshit showing that. You posted some bullshit article where the idiot writer said....oh not in writing...doesn't count! No one ever claimed it was in writing.

I posted you links of actual declassified government documents which proved that the US assured Gorbachev many times in person and over phone talks - that NATO would not expand eastward. Period. End of story. This happened, so stop making it up that it didn't. It is a matter of fact. It is a matter of recorded history.

Most are right at around 1.5% or over 2% pal. Read the graphic again. Only 3 countries are way short of 1.5%. And the spending has increased across the board - as more countries inched closer to that 2% and exceeded the 2% in large part because of the Orange Ahole was bullying them privately and slamming them very publicly. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12921 on: February 18, 2022, 11:04:29 AM »
1.5% is not 2.0%, and Trump didn't impact this at all.  There was a silly conspiracy notion about NATO expansion that you bought into and was clearly false, but have at it, par for the course.

And Bush and Obama both PUBLICLY excoriated NATO countries to spend more.  They even agreed to do it by 2024, and then of course reneged.

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