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Topic: In other news ...

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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12698 on: February 15, 2022, 10:12:54 AM »


One reason the middle class has eroded, slightly, is they moved into the upper class, which probably is an OK thing.
https://qz.com/1269172/the-epic-mistake-about-manufacturing-thats-cost-americans-millions-of-jobs/

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2016/05/11/americas-shrinking-middle-class-a-close-look-at-changes-within-metropolitan-areas/

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/

https://stonecenter.gc.cuny.edu/the-u-s-middle-class-isnt-shrinking-but-it-is-getting-squeezed-as-inequality-rises/

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2018/06/05/seven-reasons-to-worry-about-the-american-middle-class/

https://www.investopedia.com/insights/americas-slowly-disappearing-middle-class/

https://qz.com/1592826/the-middle-class-is-shrinking-generation-by-generation/

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-the-middle-class-is-shrinking-2019-04-12

https://www.oecd.org/els/soc/OECD-middle-class-2019-main-findings.pdf

https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/

https://www.epi.org/publication/americas-slow-motion-wage-crisis-four-decades-of-slow-and-unequal-growth-2/

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/13/business/economy/middle-class-pay.html

https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

https://www.epi.org/blog/growing-inequalities-reflecting-growing-employer-power-have-generated-a-productivity-pay-gap-since-1979-productivity-has-grown-3-5-times-as-much-as-pay-for-the-typical-worker/

https://www.vox.com/2019/5/3/18526788/worker-productivity-spikes

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/02/why-the-gap-between-worker-pay-and-productivity-is-so-problematic/385931/

https://cepr.net/this-is-what-minimum-wage-would-be-if-it-kept-pace-with-productivity/

https://www.businessinsider.com/top-1-have-more-money-than-the-middle-class-2021-10#:~:text=The%20latest%20data%20from%20the,the%20very%20top%20have%20skyrocketed.

According to the latest release on the distribution of wealth in the US from the Federal Reserve, as of the second quarter of 2021, the top 1% of Americans by income had an aggregate net worth of $36.2 trillion, edging out the aggregate net worth of the middle 60% of $35.7 trillion. That's the first time the total wealth of the top 1% has been higher than the middle 60% since the Federal Reserve began tracking this data in 1989.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/07/6-facts-about-economic-inequality-in-the-u-s/

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/

the American middle class and labor unions have been bludgeoned to death for the past 40+ years. people are working more, earning about the same or less despite being more productive- while costs of housing, education, and healthcare have skyrocketed- and have had to load up on debt to make up the difference just to maintain standards of living. Average income and the average home price in the 1960s was what? What are both today? Lol.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2022, 10:18:18 AM by Mdot21 »

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12699 on: February 15, 2022, 10:24:23 AM »
The middle class clearly still exists, it has not eroded to nothing.  Whatever happens to the wealthy folks doesn't mean the middle class is not still very relevant and extant.

And to the extent it is SLOWLY DISAPPEARING, one reason is folks are moving on up.

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12700 on: February 15, 2022, 10:37:18 AM »
What is considered middle class?
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12701 on: February 15, 2022, 10:41:22 AM »
This is how Pew defines it, and of course there are other ways to define it, there is no one definition, as there is for poverty levels.

In our analysis, “middle-income” Americans are adults whose annual household income is two-thirds to double the national median, after incomes have been adjusted for household size. In 2016, the national middle-income range was about $45,200 to $135,600 annually for a household of three. Lower-income households had incomes less than $45,200 and upper-income households had incomes greater than $135,600 (incomes in 2016 dollars).

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12702 on: February 15, 2022, 10:44:51 AM »
The middle class clearly still exists, it has not eroded to nothing.  Whatever happens to the wealthy folks doesn't mean the middle class is not still very relevant and extant.

And to the extent it is SLOWLY DISAPPEARING, one reason is folks are moving on up.
No. I don't think you are understanding this. Folks are not moving up. Socio-economic upward mobility in the US has been stagnant or decreasing. For decades. The middle class has virtually been relegated to serfs, living pay check to pay check- seeing no real increase in wages- and having to load up on debt to maintain living standards- all while their productivity has increased drastically while costs of living (housing, education, healthcare, cars) have skyrocketed even when you adjust for inflation. For the first time ever the younger generation will earn less and have a lower standard of living than their parents in the generation before them.

The very rich- top 1% percent and to go even further- a fraction of the 1% - the top .01% - have had enormous income gains while the middle class has seen decreasing or stagnant real income- despite making massive gains in productivity. The middle has been sucked dry and all the gains have gone to the top- and virtually none to the middle.

MrNubbz

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12703 on: February 15, 2022, 10:46:14 AM »
The middle class clearly still exists, it has not eroded to nothing.  Whatever happens to the wealthy folks doesn't mean the middle class is not still very relevant and extant.

And to the extent it is SLOWLY DISAPPEARING, one reason is folks are moving on up.
Unfortunately unregulated everything more folks are not
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12704 on: February 15, 2022, 10:48:44 AM »
It is hyperbole to claim the middle class has eroded to nothing.  Trying to change the topic to some other metric is just moving goal posts.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12705 on: February 15, 2022, 10:53:35 AM »
It is hyperbole to claim the middle class has eroded to nothing.  Trying to change the topic to some other metric is just moving goal posts.
I'm sorry, but it is not hyperbole at all. there has been a complete erosion. the middle have literally not gained an inch - for four decades- while costs of living have increased drastically- and have had to load up on record amounts of debt just to maintain pace and keep their standards of living. virtually all of the gains in income and wealth have gone to the top 1% and fraction of that 1%.

The United States has levels of income and wealth inequality that have literally never been seen in it's entire history. We are turning into a banana republic plutocracy. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but they are just the facts. America is a club. And you ain't in it.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12706 on: February 15, 2022, 10:56:55 AM »
If it eroded to nothing, it wouldn't exist.  It DOES exist, still, obviously.  This is akin to chatting with OAM about the obvious.  The topic is not about wealth distribution or median income growth, it is simply whether the middle class still exists, or was COMPLETELY ERODED.


Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12707 on: February 15, 2022, 11:01:14 AM »
If it eroded to nothing, it wouldn't exist.  It DOES exist, still, obviously.  This is akin to chatting with OAM about the obvious.  The topic is not about wealth distribution or median income growth, it is simply whether the middle class still exists, or was COMPLETELY ERODED.
well, I'd say that their income/wealth being ground to a halt for 4 decades while costs of living skyrocket- basically means they've been completely eroded. how can you even have a middle class when one extremely small class has basically everything.

https://www.businessinsider.com/wealthiest-1-percent-stole-50-trillion-working-americans-what-means-2020-9

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12708 on: February 15, 2022, 11:03:27 AM »
If the ultrarich hadn't rigged the system in their favor, your annual pay would be doubled — somewhere between $48,000 and $63,000 higher per year.

That's about $1,000 or more per weekly paycheck that you could have spent in your community, invested in home improvements, or saved for a rainy day, but which instead went to the wealthiest Americans.

So if it feels like you're working harder for less money than your parents' and grandparents' generations, that's because you are.

Think about what you could do with an extra thousand dollars a week. We've all heard the statistic that nearly half of all Americans are only one $400 emergency away from catastrophe. This is why Americans don't have that $400 — that money, and much more, has gone to some rich guy's offshore bank account.

"To be clear, this is not some fantasy," and those numbers aren't hypothetical, David Goldstein said in the latest episode of "Pitchfork Economics."

"That is what you would have been earning had income distributions remained constant, and had incomes broadly continued to grow at the same rate as the GDP, as they had done in the three decades prior to 1975," he said.



Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12709 on: February 15, 2022, 11:05:33 AM »
Maybe you don't understand that reported changes in median income in the US is based on real income?   Their income didn't grind to a halt, more silliness.  The GROWTH in real median income has not gone up as fast as one would like.  And as I said, obviously however much wealth the wealthy have is irrelevant to whether we have a middle class.  It's a stupid notion.


Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12710 on: February 15, 2022, 11:37:19 AM »
Russia has started troop withdrawals near the Ukraine border.

Whoops! Thought they were invading any day now! Crisis actors! False flags! Alex Jones! That’s what Biden’s state department and the stenographers in mainstream media who give the state zero pushback and gleefully print it’s lies wholly unchecked have been saying for like half a year now. For months and months… INVAYYY-shun…any day now! AP Reporter Matt Lee: “yeah, ok where’s the evidence?” Gov’t: “trust us”.

Weird.

Cincydawg

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