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Topic: In other news ...

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12124 on: February 03, 2022, 03:17:14 PM »
The best possible person in an uneven society is going to yield the privileged class nearly every time.  

It's a great way to keep things how they've always been.  It's a good way for certain people to feel comfortable at night.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12125 on: February 03, 2022, 03:18:13 PM »
Im looking forward to the senate confirmation hearing for the next member of the SCOTUS

Cant wait to hear some applicant say they want to defund the police or some other crap
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longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12126 on: February 03, 2022, 03:20:26 PM »
The best possible person in an uneven society is going to yield the privileged class nearly every time. 

It's a great way to keep things how they've always been.  It's a good way for certain people to feel comfortable at night.
how bout we just nominate someone that will uphold the constitution

if they adhere to the constitution I dont care what color they are
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12127 on: February 03, 2022, 04:06:59 PM »
The hypothetical "best possible person" would be just that, no matter his or her caste or color.  But it's a theoretical and an opinion.

And I find parts of the Constitution unclear and subject to interpretation, which is why we had Madison-v-Marbury.


longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12128 on: February 03, 2022, 04:27:36 PM »
The hypothetical "best possible person" would be just that, no matter his or her caste or color.  But it's a theoretical and an opinion.

And I find parts of the Constitution unclear and subject to interpretation, which is why we had Madison-v-Marbury.


yes but that doesnt take away the main goal of SCOTUS and that is to seek adherence to the Constitution

it is not to make new law but to rule on existing law and whether or not it follows the Constitution
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12129 on: February 03, 2022, 04:44:57 PM »
So, I've been thinking about the whole diversity thing a bit of late...

I don't think we really have a very good understanding of what "intelligence" or even "reason" truly are... We have woefully inadequate knowledge about how the brain works, even less how the "mind" works. 

So here's my theory, which is probably controversial... 

Much of what we determine to be "intelligence" is based on highly evolved pattern-matching algorithms. The ability to quickly relate new experiences into known patterns, the ability to pick and choose from multiple patterns to integrate a response to situations that may not directly echo a pattern you previously know, etc. Those who we consider most "intelligent" are just simply better at this, their brains do this more effectively and briskly, than those who are less "intelligent". Some of the most "intelligent" are those who are able to see something that triggers pattern-matching but are able to recognize when something excludes that pattern's relevance. 

The purpose of education is to help us by exposing us to a very wide array of possible patterns for future use. General education gives a baseline. Specialized education [such as science/engineering, medicine, law] are no different, in that they deal with topics so specialized that you need training to even get a baseline of patterns to even get your foot in the door. 

That said, we integrate patterns throughout our entire life, not just via formal education. Many patterns are dependent on our upbringing and social/cultural forces of our place in life. Thus, the patterns that I recognize, as a white, male, middle-class, educated white-collar worker from an upper-middle-class very WASP-y Chicago suburb, will be very different than someone who perhaps *looks* like me and has the same nationality makeup but grew up on the south side of Chicago, only completed a high school education, particularly a parochial school, and went on to trade school to be a plumber. And it will be light-years different from, perhaps, the child of Cuban immigrants in South Florida who grew up in a primarily Spanish-speaking household and fought through that diversity to go to college and law school and is now an Appellate Court Justice with a potential nomination to SCOTUS. 

Here's where pattern matching can go wrong... If you have certain patterns in your brain, it can sometimes be nearly impossible to see things outside of the patterns you've learned. I'll tell you from experience, that some of the smartest engineers in the world can turn into some of the worst when they're trying to solve a problem that resembles a problem they've solved before but has a completely different root cause. They will beat their heads against the wall believing it's the previous problem, and when you finally find the real root cause, you have to beat them over the head with it to get them to see that it wasn't what they initially saw. It's REALLY hard to treat every problem as a new problem, and to try not to anchor yourself to past problems, because in a world where we all have 100 things going on at any time, it's easiest to simply classify it as what you know, first. 

The same thing can happen on SCOTUS. If all of SCOTUS are white male upper-class Harvard/Princeton grads, they are going to have a hell of a lot of smarts but likely have a relatively narrow group of patterns to match. Something that exists outside that pattern may not be impossible for them to handle, but it will likely be impossible for them to SEE without getting clued in by someone else whose pattern matches. 

Diversity of patterns is not encompassed by race, or sex, or whatever "external" category we can identify by sight... But those are often a proxy for very different patterns. And bringing different patterns to any problem-solving endeavor (of which SCOTUS is entirely one) will be important given the extraordinary diversity of cases we ask them to decide. 

Which is to say that there is value in diversity. Such that if you have two equally-qualified candidates for a slot on SCOTUS but one has the same upbringing and looks exactly like the other 8, and one has significant diversity of pattern through life experience, race, etc, diversity would be a virtue for diversity's sake. 

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12130 on: February 03, 2022, 04:52:04 PM »
I've met a few smart folks in my life, probably some post here.  What they could do exceptionally well is solve problems creatively.

I've met others with encyclopedic knowledge, I personally have a mind for trivia, but they could not do all that much with it except parrot it back.

I do agree about diversity in thought and experience being an asset against group think, we don't need nine identical Justices, even if the "best" however defined are all Harvard trained lawyers who were SCOTUS clerks and worked their way up the various levels of the bench.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12131 on: February 03, 2022, 05:57:00 PM »
Of course... Ol' Joe might just be crafty...

Maybe "nominating a black woman" is his way of getting rid of his boat anchor of a VP. 

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12132 on: February 03, 2022, 06:05:40 PM »
Of course... Ol' Joe might just be crafty...

Maybe "nominating a black woman" is his way of getting rid of his boat anchor of a VP.
OMG no... Just no.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12133 on: February 03, 2022, 06:23:27 PM »
how bout we just nominate someone that will uphold the constitution

if they adhere to the constitution I dont care what color they are
Why wouldn't his nominee, no matter what smaller box they're a part of, not uphold the constitution?  

He could insist on nominating a gay, ginger Asian-American left-hander and that person is just as likely to uphold the constitution as the straight white male from Harvard.

You get that, don't you?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12134 on: February 03, 2022, 06:35:43 PM »
Of course... Ol' Joe might just be crafty...

Maybe "nominating a black woman" is his way of getting rid of his boat anchor of a VP.
she's even more unpopular than him. surprisingly. should've never picked her- she's a phony, vapid, brain dead moron - but he did it to himself - he promised to - you guessed it - pick a "woman of color" to be his VP. he boxed himself in - and picked a literal f*king moron.

It's racial pandering for votes and PR via identity politics. That's all it is. The Democrats are losing black and latin votes in record numbers. Thanks in part to President Shit-for-Brains- who has been a disaster - and that disaster is only getting worse by the day.

Even if he picks a woman of color - she'll be virtually the same as any white corporatist pro big-business, pro monopoly, pro oligarchy, pro security state, pro executive branch judge. She'll just be black. It's all PR and pandering. Just an empty gesture to win back black/latin votes.

longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12135 on: February 03, 2022, 07:22:44 PM »
Why wouldn't his nominee, no matter what smaller box they're a part of, not uphold the constitution? 

He could insist on nominating a gay, ginger Asian-American left-hander and that person is just as likely to uphold the constitution as the straight white male from Harvard.

You get that, don't you?
what I get is all the crazies out there that want to take our constitutional rights away

just wait for all the things that come out in the hearing 
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bayareabadger

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12136 on: February 03, 2022, 07:48:24 PM »

Or, better yet, nominate the best possible candidate, with a blindfold on. Is that such an ask? Let the best man or woman win, regardless of color. What a concept.
I don't know this was going to inject much policy, as originally hoped. 

But there are of course a few complicating factors. Best has a couple vectors. This branch of government has been used to anchor shifts in power for a while. Youth has long been part of what makes a candidate, only because these folks are being used as proxies for their nominators, and having more influence is seen as better. The big downside of this is that a lot of relatively inexperienced judges get shifted into the role, develop as they do. 

The insistence on hitting a certain demographic category is a time-honored one. Been with the court for maybe a century? Both parties contributing. So fulfilling that promise wouldn't be outside the norm, even if it's a tradition worth moving away from. 

A few spots I wouldn't mind seeing more as elements of the profile:
-Public law school grad (there's value in not being in a narrow cohort)
-Former public defender (a perspective highly underrepresented in that arena, but very important to those rights we always talk about)

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12137 on: February 03, 2022, 07:54:48 PM »
I don't know this was going to inject much policy, as originally hoped.

But there are of course a few complicating factors. Best has a couple vectors. This branch of government has been used to anchor shifts in power for a while. Youth has long been part of what makes a candidate, only because these folks are being used as proxies for their nominators, and having more influence is seen as better. The big downside of this is that a lot of relatively inexperienced judges get shifted into the role, develop as they do.

The insistence on hitting a certain demographic category is a time-honored one. Been with the court for maybe a century? Both parties contributing. So fulfilling that promise wouldn't be outside the norm, even if it's a tradition worth moving away from.

A few spots I wouldn't mind seeing more as elements of the profile:
-Public law school grad (there's value in not being in a narrow cohort)
-Former public defender (a perspective highly underrepresented in that arena, but very important to those rights we always talk about)
THIS.

All this.

Has there ever been a SCOTUS justice that wasn't from Yale, Princeton, or Harvard? Has there ever been a SCOTUS justice that was a former public defender and didn't come from a giant corporate law firm? I believe the answer to both is no.

 

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