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Topic: In other news ...

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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #11578 on: January 26, 2022, 01:05:29 PM »
Germany's got themselves stuck between a rock and a hard place.  They've turned out to be pretty toothless after all.

Which, after so many decades of reunification fears among the other countries in Europe, might not be the worst thing in the world.
Germany is highly dependent on Russian energy. They do not want conflict with Russia. 60% of German citizens surveyed have said they are against going to war/coming to the aid to the defense of any NATO member if it was attacked. LOL. Shows you how much they care about NATO. 

Great point lol. It's Russia that should be afraid of Germany, not the other way around. It was Germany after all that invaded killed millions of Russians and virtually destroyed Russia twice in the last oh 100+ years. The people in Russia haven't forgotten this.

utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #11579 on: January 26, 2022, 01:07:20 PM »
The people in Russia haven't forgotten this.
Obviously you have not, comrade.

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #11580 on: January 26, 2022, 01:17:18 PM »
I mean...how many bills for someone's art history degree have you received?
I'm not referring to their college expenses. It's they're unemployment that my tax dollars are paying for. 

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #11581 on: January 26, 2022, 01:23:27 PM »
Histrionics regarding whataboutism are completely irrelevant.

I'm an intelligent, rational human being that can hold multiple thoughts and opinions at the same time.  I can both disagree with the actions the USA has taken in the past, and also disagree with Russia invading the Ukraine.

And Russia invading the Ukraine is the current event-- the topic at hand.

If you want to have a separate discussion about the USA's past as an imperialistic nation, have at it.  I don't care to engage, but perhaps someone else will.

But it's irrelevant within the context of discussing a Russian invasion of the Ukraine, and the USA's potential part in it.  Which, as I've stated before, I don't support.  I too believe we need to re-think our agreements with NATO.
It is not whataboutism. Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. The US is in no position of moral authority and in no position to even pretend that it is. As an American citizen, I am concerned about what THIS country does and how it's actions effect the world. I cannot be responsible for another countries actions nor do I wish to be. I am an American. It's crass to say, but I really could give a f**k less about the rest of the world. I love this country and care about this country and what THIS country does.

The US imperial actions are not past actions, they are also present. And I disagree with them vehemently. As I do Russia invading Ukraine. Russia should not invade Ukraine. And as it stands right now, Russia has not invaded Ukraine. My hope is that they do not.

Again, the USA's past is not as an imperialistic nation. That is it's present. That's what it is. That's what we are. We are an imperial power. An imperial super power actually. That's not past. It's present.

The US is ramping up tensions and has played a role in this conflict. The US implicitly promised Gorbachev that NATO would not expand one inch eastward if USSR withdrew from East Germany and allowed for reunification. Gorbachev had legitimate reasons not to let that happen, it was GERMANY which invaded and all but destroyed Russia- twice- in the last 75 years alone at that point. Gorbachev allowed for the reunification of Germany in the name of peace and goodwill with the West. Bush I kept that promise not to expand NATO. But he's the only one. As soon as Clinton got into office, what did he do? He immediately pushed to expand NATO eastward. NATO is a military alliance, not a political one. And it's a military alliance that is completely controlled by the United States. Expansion of a military alliance nearer and nearer to Russia is not something they would want. It's not something any country would want. Would we want that? No.

The US has played a huge role in this conflict. They've gone back on their assurances and aggressively expanded NATO. They had a hand in helping to topple a democratically elected government in Ukraine in 2014. Think what you want of that government, but it's elections were deemed by international observers to be mostly free and fair, and it was democratically elected. The US was not just some neutral party- the US backed the overthrow of that government and had a hand in the new government that replaced it. And while I am 100% against invasions or annexations- it wasn't until that overthrow that Russia took Crimea. Not a justification- just pointing out that fact- and it's a complex situation with grey areas.

And the US is now sending lethal arms to Ukraine- something Obama wisely refused to do- and that is escalating tensions with diplomats like Anthony Blinkin going on tv and spouting tough guy talk rhetoric which will do nothing but only lead to a pissing contest between two nuclear armed powers. Russia has about half of the worlds nuclear war heads. We should try to avoid war.

BTW the new Ukrainian government has passed all sorts of discriminatory anti-Russian language laws- and a huge chunk of that countries population is ethnic Russian and speak Russian as a first or second language. And the rise of far right neo-nazi extremists in Ukraine has shot through the f**king roof now- and those people have their fingers in the new government and military. Some of these weapons were shipping over there will be going into the hands of neo-nazis. Great job 'Merica. 

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #11582 on: January 26, 2022, 01:24:23 PM »
Obviously you have not, comrade.
Great joke. Serious question. It was a long time ago, should they just get over it? 

What if Mexico invaded the US twice in the last 100 years and killed tens of millions of Americans. Hey, it was a long time ago. Get over it, right?

longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #11583 on: January 26, 2022, 01:27:33 PM »
Great joke. Serious question. It was a long time ago, should they just get over it?

What if Mexico invaded the US twice in the last 100 years and killed tens of millions of Americans. Hey, it was a long time ago. Get over it, right?
They are invading it right now and we are just sitting back and allowing it
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #11584 on: January 26, 2022, 01:35:25 PM »
It is not whataboutism. Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. The US is in no position of moral authority and in no position to even pretend that it is. As an American citizen, I am concerned about what THIS country does and how it's actions effect the world. I cannot be responsible for another countries actions nor do I wish to be. I am an American. It's crass to say, but I really could give a f**k less about the rest of the world. I love this country and care about this country and what THIS country does.



TL; DR

Once again, I will not engage in your histrionics regarding whataboutism.

Regarding the issue of any potential Russo-Ukranian conflict, which is the topic at hand, as an American citizen, you are espousing a policy of isolationism.  That's a valid topic for discussion, and you're obviously entitled to your own opinion on it.  Some will agree, some will disagree.

Overall I'm not a complete isolationist, but I don't support American involvement in this particular potential conflict.

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #11585 on: January 26, 2022, 01:35:47 PM »
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

MrNubbz

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #11586 on: January 26, 2022, 01:42:29 PM »
 It was Germany after all that invaded killed millions of Russians and virtually destroyed Russia twice in the last oh 100+ years. The people in Russia haven't forgotten this.
Not sure the gerries got much further east than Poland-Hungary-Romania in WW1.Before the Russky Civil War
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

MrNubbz

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #11587 on: January 26, 2022, 01:47:16 PM »
fun fact...
There were creeps that deserved to get detained was the point
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #11588 on: January 26, 2022, 01:57:24 PM »
Economy has shot back up, unemployment at record low. Carry on bemoaning everything, but the country is in pretty fine shape. The biggest problem I see is the lack of immigration, which is a big problem when it comes to inflation. I wish Biden would make the case for immigration instead of just ignoring it.
I wouldn't say the economy has shot back up. It's rebounded sure, but that's to be expected, as it was in the gutter and there was nowhere to go but back up. The unemployment statistics are being gamed, as every administration does. But the Biden administration may have taken the gaming of the stats that to laughable new levels. A lot of the "new" jobs are just people going back to work. And a lot of jobs are part time or gig economy jobs like Uber drivers and DoorDash delivery guys. Technically jobs, sure but these aren't really dignified JOBS that pay a livable wage.

The facts are as follows; as many as 4 million jobs are gone forever. About 1/3rd of small businesses donezo. As much as 60% of restaurants- closed forever. Not saying this is Biden's fault- these are just the facts of the devastating effects Coronavirus and the fed/state/local governments response to coronavirus had on the economy.

The US was already teetering on becoming a rapacious oligarchy before corona. Wealth inequality levels before corona were the highest since the roaring '20s. All corona and the response from the government did was to accelerate wealth inequality. The CARES act was the largest transfer of wealth in the history of this country- and it will reshape the economy for decades to come. Main Street suffered while Wall Street got bail outs and access to trillion dollar credit allocations/slush funds. The gulf between the haves and have nots has accelerated at record pace. Wealth inequality has now shattered every previous record in the US history books and is at a record all-time high. But hey, Americans got a one-time $1,200 check though. Lol. The conglomerates have just continued to consolidate through corona and buy up smaller businesses and distressed assets, and monopolies continue to devour everything- even though we have anti-trust laws on that books that are never enforced. Might be a good time to start enforcing them and breaking up Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc..

As far as inflation goes, the connection to immigration is unclear to me. Wage increase is a good thing, and a much needed thing for many Americans. Your average working class American has not seen a real wage increase in 40+ years - meanwhile costs of living have been rising drastically in that same time span. Americans have had to load up on credit cards and debts to maintain living standards. Wage increases are a good thing.

The main driver of inflation has been the skyrocketing cost of oil. The US dollar is tethered to the oil trade- it is what allows us to continue to maintain our status as the reserve currency of the world- and the cost of oil impacts literally the cost of everything else in the world. It is the greatest single input in the entire world economy. The entire world for the most part still runs on it. When oil goes up, price for every kind of fuel goes up, price for trucking, shipping- literally everything goes up. They go hand in hand. And Biden could try to fix this problem by getting on his knees and sucking off MbS, bending over backwards and begging Saudis to ramp production to all-time highs and drive oil prices down. As far as I know the bumbling brain dead senile old fart still refuses to talk to MbS. Senile Joe is a "tough guy" he's going to show that MbS! You go Joe...keep on keepin' on while inflation destroys the average US worker/family.

Increases in demand and supply chains being f**ked obviously has lead to increases in prices/inflation. There has definitely been some price gouging on as well- big agribusiness-  which has lead to ridiculous prices at grocery stores. I have a buddy who owns a restaurant and ever since COVID his chicken supplier has raised prices by 3x what it was before for a case of chicken. They just increased the price on him again. I don't think there is a lack of chickens.....I understand fuel costs are higher and they might have to pay their truck drivers and plant workers more......but those continued price increases are just....insane. There has to be price gouging going on- for sure. Dirty little secret- once businesses know they can get people to pay a higher price for something- they almost never lower the price.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #11589 on: January 26, 2022, 02:17:21 PM »
I wouldn't say the economy has shot back up. It's rebounded sure, but that's to be expected, as it was in the gutter and there was nowhere to go but back up. The unemployment statistics are being gamed, as every administration does. But the Biden administration may have taken the gaming of the stats that to laughable new levels. A lot of the "new" jobs are just people going back to work. And a lot of jobs are part time or gig economy jobs like Uber drivers and DoorDash delivery guys. Technically jobs, sure but these aren't really dignified JOBS that pay a livable wage.

The facts are as follows; as many as 4 million jobs are gone forever. About 1/3rd of small businesses donezo. As much as 60% of restaurants- closed forever. Not saying this is Biden's fault- these are just the facts of the devastating effects Coronavirus and the fed/state/local governments response to coronavirus had on the economy.

The US was already teetering on becoming a rapacious oligarchy before corona. Wealth inequality levels before corona were the highest since the roaring '20s. All corona and the response from the government did was to accelerate wealth inequality. The CARES act was the largest transfer of wealth in the history of this country- and it will reshape the economy for decades to come. Main Street suffered while Wall Street got bail outs and access to trillion dollar credit allocations/slush funds. The gulf between the haves and have nots has accelerated at record pace. Wealth inequality has now shattered every previous record in the US history books and is at a record all-time high. But hey, Americans got a one-time $1,200 check though. Lol. The conglomerates have just continued to consolidate through corona and buy up smaller businesses and distressed assets, and monopolies continue to devour everything- even though we have anti-trust laws on that books that are never enforced. Might be a good time to start enforcing them and breaking up Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc..

As far as inflation goes, the connection to immigration is unclear to me. Wage increase is a good thing, and a much needed thing for many Americans. Your average working class American has not seen a real wage increase in 40+ years - meanwhile costs of living have been rising drastically in that same time span. Americans have had to load up on credit cards and debts to maintain living standards. Wage increases are a good thing.

The main driver of inflation has been the skyrocketing cost of oil. The US dollar is tethered to the oil trade- it is what allows us to continue to maintain our status as the reserve currency of the world- and the cost of oil impacts literally the cost of everything else in the world. It is the greatest single input in the entire world economy. The entire world for the most part still runs on it. When oil goes up, price for every kind of fuel goes up, price for trucking, shipping- literally everything goes up. They go hand in hand. And Biden could try to fix this problem by getting on his knees and sucking off MbS, bending over backwards and begging Saudis to ramp production to all-time highs and drive oil prices down. As far as I know the bumbling brain dead senile old fart still refuses to talk to MbS. Senile Joe is a "tough guy" he's going to show that MbS! You go Joe...keep on keepin' on while inflation destroys the average US worker/family.

Increases in demand and supply chains being f**ked obviously has lead to increases in prices/inflation. There has definitely been some price gouging on as well- big agribusiness-  which has lead to ridiculous prices at grocery stores. I have a buddy who owns a restaurant and ever since COVID his chicken supplier has raised prices by 3x what it was before for a case of chicken. They just increased the price on him again. I don't think there is a lack of chickens.....I understand fuel costs are higher and they might have to pay their truck drivers and plant workers more......but those continued price increases are just....insane. There has to be price gouging going on- for sure. Dirty little secret- once businesses know they can get people to pay a higher price for something- they almost never lower the price.
Pretty much agree with one exception. The wage increases that are happening to try and attract workers might be perceived as helping the workers, but those costs are simply passed directly through to the consumer of whatever that businesses. Just exacerbates inflation.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #11590 on: January 26, 2022, 02:21:41 PM »
If one tracks REAL wages and then claims they aren't keeping up with rising costs, per above, it makes no sense, to me.


847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #11591 on: January 26, 2022, 02:21:51 PM »
When workers get $15/hour to flip Big Macs... The Big Mac then costs $10.00. Worker still cannot afford Big Mac.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

 

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