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Topic: In other news ...

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MarqHusker

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #10374 on: November 20, 2021, 01:04:20 AM »
As a former prosecutor in WI and defense attorney, imo, this thing shouldn't have been charged in this fashion at all.  Numerous errors by Kenosha Co imo at the charging phase.  If charged differently, I thinkthey had a better case for certain 2nd degree homicide charges under WI law.  , nevermind some dubious direct questioning of their own witnesses, mainly the 3rd man shot, who survived.  Inexcusable performance by ADA w that witness.  The case was lost at that point imo.  The ADA basically did the defense attorneys cross for him getting his past mental health into the record when the Judge ruled against the defendant during a pre trial motion.    They couldn't recover.  Couple that with his own words wrt to his own handling of the handgun, it was over. 

Defendant was quite good on the stand by the way, and I'm not talking about the tears.  He was so poised and never broken on his state of mind.

Media coverage pretty shameful on this. 

I also think Rittenhouse was an idiot for doing what he did.    My biggest complaint remains with local and state authorities allowing their cities to be overrun with idiots and 'peaceful protests'  we can't feign surprise when we discover that there are people who take measure such as Rittenhouse, in an effort to protect something, that the city county and state don't have the fortitude have the courage to do.
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #10375 on: November 20, 2021, 01:10:07 AM »
Quote from: MarqHusker on November 20, 2021, 01:04:20 AM
I also think Rittenhouse was an idiot for doing what he did. My biggest complaint remains with local and state authorities allowing their cities to be overrun with idiots and 'peaceful protests'  we can't feign surprise when we discover that there are people who take measure such as Rittenhouse, in an effort to protect something, that the city county and state don't have the fortitude have the courage to do.
agree. he shouldn't have been there. bad idea. the pieces of shit breaking stuff, committing acts of violence, looting, and starting fires shouldn't have been there either. that is not protesting. people have the right to protest peacefully and demonstrate. they don't have the right to get violent, destroy property, and commit arson. the minute any of that shit happens- national guard & police should've been there to crack skulls, kick ass, and take names.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #10376 on: November 20, 2021, 07:45:26 AM »
I've been on juries, the issues can be complex, but the finding is not that he was innocent, or that he was smart, or that he was right.  The finding is he was NOT GUILTY under the law, beyond a reasonable doubt.  It's a pretty high burden, one shared by all twelve jurors who paid far more attention than I.

A person can be stupid, do stupid things, and even have broken the law and still be not guilty.  Unanimous decision, by twelve jurors.  If you  have a better system, I'd enjoy hearing about it.
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longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #10377 on: November 20, 2021, 09:21:09 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on November 20, 2021, 07:45:26 AM
I've been on juries, the issues can be complex, but the finding is not that he was innocent, or that he was smart, or that he was right.  The finding is he was NOT GUILTY under the law, beyond a reasonable doubt.  It's a pretty high burden, one shared by all twelve jurors who paid far more attention than I.

A person can be stupid, do stupid things, and even have broken the law and still be not guilty.  Unanimous decision, by twelve jurors.  If you  have a better system, I'd enjoy hearing about it.
what you say is true CD but if you review the video footage and read the witness testimony it goes way beyond finding someone not guilty 

He was not guilty not only beyond a shadow of a doubt

He was not guilty period and this trial should have never happened

now we are going to see just how much wrong our President and the media did probably in a court

words have meaning and the media should be ashamed

its interesting that this keeps being played as a racial incident but everybody involved was white
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FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #10378 on: November 20, 2021, 09:33:50 AM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on November 20, 2021, 09:21:09 AM
its interesting that this keeps being played as a racial incident but everybody involved was white
interesting isn't a strong enough term imo
divisive is a term that gets used by many in the media, but they can't seem to understand the media is the most divisive 
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FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #10379 on: November 20, 2021, 09:58:56 AM »
THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) — Police opened fire on protesters in rioting that erupted in downtown Rotterdam around a demonstration against COVID-19 restrictions late Friday night. The Dutch city’s mayor called it “an orgy of violence.”

Police said that two rioters were hospitalized after being hit by bullets and investigations were underway to establish if they were shot by police. The condition of the injured rioters was not disclosed.

Officers arrested 51 people, about half of them minors, police said Saturday afternoon. One police officer was hospitalized with a leg injury sustained in the rioting, another was treated by ambulance staff and “countless” others suffered minor injuries.

Mayor Ahmed Aboutaleb told reporters in the early hours of Saturday morning that “on a number of occasions the police felt it necessary to draw their weapons to defend themselves” as rioters ran rampage through the port city’s central shopping district, setting fires and throwing rocks and fireworks at officers.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #10380 on: November 20, 2021, 10:00:19 AM »
The only legal finding was not guilty,  anything else is just an opinion by anyone on the street.

I was more intrigued by the various positions people took which were very predictable based on their politics instead of the law, and how the media portrayed various aspected of it.

NPR did a pretty good job in my view summarizing the trial and the case.
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #10381 on: November 20, 2021, 10:08:33 AM »


In a sane world the looters and rioters would have been on trial, and Rittenhouse given a medal of honor. 

Luckily for him, the jurors were from the Kenosha area, and are quite likely jealous of Rittenhouse for getting to flush a few of those turds. 
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bayareabadger

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #10382 on: November 20, 2021, 10:13:56 AM »
Quote from: MarqHusker on November 20, 2021, 01:04:20 AM
As a former prosecutor in WI and defense attorney, imo, this thing shouldn't have been charged in this fashion at all.  Numerous errors by Kenosha Co imo at the charging phase.  If charged differently, I thinkthey had a better case for certain 2nd degree homicide charges under WI law.  , nevermind some dubious direct questioning of their own witnesses, mainly the 3rd man shot, who survived.  Inexcusable performance by ADA w that witness.  The case was lost at that point imo.  The ADA basically did the defense attorneys cross for him getting his past mental health into the record when the Judge ruled against the defendant during a pre trial motion.    They couldn't recover.  Couple that with his own words wrt to his own handling of the handgun, it was over. 

Defendant was quite good on the stand by the way, and I'm not talking about the tears.  He was so poised and never broken on his state of mind.

Media coverage pretty shameful on this. 
This phrases well a lot of what I thought. Badly handled on the prosecutor side, and while I think there were numerous things the kid did that I would consider bad and maybe worthy of punishment, I don't think there was an excellent legal tool to deal with it. 

I think the media coverage was poor, but I also think that reflects the capitalist nature of media and how we consume it. If someone gives use staid, calm analysis, people just don't go for it. They look elsewhere for the spicy thing that explains how UNFAIR it is to their side. (Football has good comparisons there. I can explain to someone why a play-call that didn't go their way was fine, but they really want to be mad at someone, and that's the vessel into which the anger flows)

(I think the judge did have a moment of showing his backside. Not in a biased way, as much as making a joke that was simply not going to help the perception questions that seemed to be bothering him)
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MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #10383 on: November 20, 2021, 10:14:34 AM »
If that guy with a gun had just shot Rittenhouse after he killed the homeless guy, it would have saved everyone a lot of time and angst.
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longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #10384 on: November 20, 2021, 10:14:52 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on November 20, 2021, 10:00:19 AM
The only legal finding was not guilty,  anything else is just an opinion by anyone on the street.

I was more intrigued by the various positions people took which were very predictable based on their politics instead of the law, and how the media portrayed various aspected of it.

NPR did a pretty good job in my view summarizing the trial and the case.
I understand what the jury instructions were CD

and Im saying (yes its my opinion) the evidence and witness testimony made it pretty much of a slam dunk

the prosecution just never had a case.  Hell they had to invent gun laws that didnt exist to try to make something stick

complete waste of time and money
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utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #10385 on: November 20, 2021, 10:57:12 AM »
Quote from: FearlessF on November 20, 2021, 09:58:56 AM
THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) — Police opened fire on protesters in rioting that erupted in downtown Rotterdam around a demonstration against COVID-19 restrictions late Friday night. The Dutch city’s mayor called it “an orgy of violence.”

Police said that two rioters were hospitalized after being hit by bullets and investigations were underway to establish if they were shot by police. The condition of the injured rioters was not disclosed.

Officers arrested 51 people, about half of them minors, police said Saturday afternoon. One police officer was hospitalized with a leg injury sustained in the rioting, another was treated by ambulance staff and “countless” others suffered minor injuries.

Mayor Ahmed Aboutaleb told reporters in the early hours of Saturday morning that “on a number of occasions the police felt it necessary to draw their weapons to defend themselves” as rioters ran rampage through the port city’s central shopping district, setting fires and throwing rocks and fireworks at officers.


This is unpossible.  I've been informed countless times, that the enlightened peoples of Europe are the Gold Standard for handling complex social issues.  And that only the stupid, fat, redneck "Muh Freedoms" types here in the US, would ever resort to fomenting such chaos and unrest.
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #10386 on: November 20, 2021, 10:58:37 AM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on November 20, 2021, 10:14:34 AM
If that guy with a gun had just shot Rittenhouse after he killed the homeless guy, it would have saved everyone a lot of time and angst.


Certainly wasn't for a lack of trying. 

Wasn't as quick on the draw though. 
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MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #10387 on: November 20, 2021, 11:20:50 AM »
Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 20, 2021, 10:58:37 AM

Certainly wasn't for a lack of trying.

Wasn't as quick on the draw though.
Shoot first, talk later, save everyone the Twitter drama
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