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Topic: In other news ...

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Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7896 on: August 21, 2021, 07:35:26 PM »
Tell us more about the invisible man in the sky.....
I have no idea what you’re talking about now.

But I was once told to never argue with an idiot because they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.  I should probably take that advice given it really applies to you but it’s just so fun beating you and proving you wrong and making you look silly when you do so much of that on your own
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7897 on: August 21, 2021, 07:36:08 PM »
Again, you live in a fantasy world.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7898 on: August 21, 2021, 07:38:06 PM »
Again, you live in a fantasy world. 
😂😂. Ok Fro. I bow to you version of the world. 
 I have learned a lot about what psychotic means from watching your posts so I should thank you for that
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7899 on: August 21, 2021, 07:41:20 PM »
There are legitimate arguments supporting both occupation, and withdrawal. 

There are no legitimate arguments for botching the withdrawal as badly as has happened.
My main problem is bombing kids doesn't get nearly the attention as making them wait in line to get on an airplane

Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7900 on: August 21, 2021, 07:41:23 PM »
Shhhhhhhh.......only American lives matter........wait, unless you're a Democratic President withdrawing from another country, then suddenly they matter....
Try to keep up Fro.  I know it’s hard because it is an adult conversation and you hang around with children all day.
The majority of this post has been talking about the people of Afghanistan being raped, beheaded, burned alive, tortured etc.
so the post you just wrote is, as usual, totally off base.   You just can’t help from looking at any situation to anything but your left leaning political eyes can you?
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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CWSooner

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7901 on: August 21, 2021, 07:43:49 PM »
Why was indefinite occupation unacceptable?  It was relatively cheap.  In the same universe as what it costs us to maintain 10 times as many troops in South Korea.
To say that ripping the band-aid off was the only solution is an example of all-or-nothing thinking.  It's letting the perfect be the enemy of the just good enough.
It was just good enough to keep the Taliban at bay and keep Afghanistan from being a great haven and staging base for international terrorism that it was in September 2001.
A mature great power accepts that there are limits to its power, but it doesn't adopt the attitude that if it can't achieve total victory then it will do nothing.  After 100-plus years as a great power, we are still immature, and want to pick up our toys and go home when we can't get everything we want.
Amplifying on those points . . . .
Before the Civil War, the country was being torn apart in the debate over slavery.
The anti-slavery forces ranged from immediate abolitionists like William Lloyd Garrison, who wanted immediate freedom for the slaves, even if it meant dissolving the Union, to anti-slavery Democrats who were beginning to disagree with the mainstream of their party.  In between were moderate anti-slavery advocates like Abraham Lincoln.  Lincoln saw slavery as an abomination and wanted it gone.  But he didn't want it gone only in the North, which is what it would have been had Garrison had his way.  He wanted it eliminated while keeping the Union intact.  He used a couple of metaphors to describe the difficulty in getting rid of it and also the danger of trying to eliminate  it immediately.
One of his metaphors was a rattlesnake in a crib with a baby.  Whaling away at the rattlesnake will likely result in it biting and killing the baby.  So you have to be patient and try to coax the snake out of the crib without harming the baby.
The other metaphor was to a cancer--he called it a wen--on a person's body.  If you cut it out, you will bleed to death.  So you live with it while you try to find a treatment that will gradually get rid of it.
Neither of those is a particularly good analogy with Afghanistan.  But they illustrate that sometimes the "rip off the band-aid" solution is not the best one.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7902 on: August 21, 2021, 07:45:49 PM »
My main problem is bombing kids doesn't get nearly the attention as making them wait in line to get on an airplane
Or watching their sister be raped, their father shot, their uncle beheaded.  Wait in line- come on Max.  Watch the real world.   
being so scared for your life- because the Americans abandoned you- that your willing to cling to a US AF plane to escape and then fall to your death. 
I guess if that is waiting in line to you then you’re just looking at this through tainted political spectacles. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

CWSooner

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7903 on: August 21, 2021, 07:47:05 PM »
It's worth noting the number of people in Trunmp's previous administration who suddenly talked about how they never actually planned to leave Afghanistan. Who cares?
They are lying.  What else is new?

Quote
At the end of the day, if we can actually get out of the country without starting some new conflict, Biden will have succeeded where Bush, Obama, and Trump failed.
No, he will have pushed through the easy political decision--no one in his base would oppose withdrawal--at the cost of America's national interests.
We are less safe in the world now than we were two weeks ago.
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CWSooner

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7904 on: August 21, 2021, 07:50:04 PM »
Quote
As Churchill said in Parliament after the Munich sellout of 1938, "You were given the choice between war and dishonor.  You chose dishonor, and you will have war.”

Winston could wax philosophical with the best of them,great statesman but had no business in a council of war - where he spent most of his time.I'm surprised Brooke or IKE didn't choke the living snot out of him. Just finished Winston's War by Max Hastings good/great book,before that I read Masters and Commanders by Andrew Roberts recommend both.I believe Winston was Bi-Polar very brilliant and base in the same breath
All that notwithstanding, what he said was correct.  Chamberlain chose dishonor, and Britain got war exactly one year later.
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MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7905 on: August 21, 2021, 07:52:57 PM »
Or watching their sister be raped, their father shot, their uncle beheaded.  Wait in line- come on Max.  Watch the real world. 
being so scared for your life- because the Americans abandoned you- that your willing to cling to a US AF plane to escape and then fall to your death.
I guess if that is waiting in line to you then you’re just looking at this through tainted political spectacles.
Oh don't get me wrong - it is scary and disturbing. But I bristle at the idea that this was "botched" as if there was some easy way to do it. There has been an awful lot of things botched. For example, the war initially began over getting Bin Laden, something we didn't do for ten years. Well over 100K people have died during this war - the idea that we are suddenly out of our league is wrong. We were always out of our league.

CWSooner

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7906 on: August 21, 2021, 07:53:23 PM »
"Cheap"

"Air operations by US forces and the Afghan Air Force (AAF) killed and injured over 600 civilians. On April 2, AAF helicopters strafed a madrasa graduation ceremony in northern Kunduz province, killing 30 children and injuring 51. An airstrike in Chardara district, Kunduz province in July, reportedly killed 14 members of one family, including five women and seven children aged 2 to 14. The US conducted only internal reviews of a limited number of incidents of civilian casualties, and did not carry out site visits or interview witnesses. The Afghan government carried out few internal reviews of incidents causing civilian casualties. During a six-day Taliban assault on Ghazni city, both insurgents and government security forces launched indiscriminate attacks in densely populated areas, killing and injuring more than 300 civilians."

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2019/country-chapters/afghanistan#
Cheap to us.  We had a purpose in being there, and we were paying a relatively cheap price to accomplish that purpose.
As for Afghan civilians, I imagine that the humanitarian toll will be far higher in our absence than with our presence.
It's not the case that Afghanistan is going to become a Garden of Eden now that the Taliban is taking over.  Retributions will be inflicted on everyone who opposed them, while every female in Afghanistan will revert to the status of property.
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MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7907 on: August 21, 2021, 07:53:57 PM »

Quote
No, he will have pushed through the easy political decision--no one in his base would oppose withdrawal--at the cost of America's national interests.

We are less safe in the world now than we were two weeks ago.
I mean, who knows. It is something that the terror group we empowered by invading Iraq is now complicating our efforts to withdraw from Afghanistan. The self-defeating cycle.

CWSooner

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7908 on: August 21, 2021, 07:56:30 PM »
I mean, who knows. It is something that the terror group we empowered by invading Iraq is now complicating our efforts to withdraw from Afghanistan. The self-defeating cycle.
To what terror group are you referring?

ISIS?
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MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7909 on: August 21, 2021, 07:56:44 PM »
To what terror group are you referring?
ISIS

 

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