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Topic: In other news ...

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Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7854 on: August 21, 2021, 05:31:41 PM »
Going to Afghanistan never made any sense and we only stayed there so long because this is what withdraw looked like.
Debatable.   Oh how we forgot.  I think we will be reminded shortly.   

one thing is for sure/ we really need to figure out how to understand who is coming into our country via the borders. 
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MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7855 on: August 21, 2021, 05:37:35 PM »
The plan was for the Afghan "army" we built and financed to hold off the Taliban for a few weeks. That was obviously a misstep. Would have been better off forgiving student loans.

CWSooner

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7856 on: August 21, 2021, 05:42:28 PM »
We could have stayed indefinitely at the low level of forces and engagements that we have had since 2014.  In the last 7 years, we have lost 66 personnel and spent about $10 billion--a rounding error in the federal budget--a year.

There has been no groundswell of public opinion demanding that we get out.  Both presidential candidates promised--for various reasons--that they would get us out, and the Trump administration made the deal with the Taliban in early 2020 setting an end date.  At that point, the Afghan army, such as it is, began surrendering and melting away.  They were prepared to fight while we were there--over 50,000 of them died fighting alongside us--but not to fight once they knew that we were abandoning them.

If we weren't going to stay, then why did we go in?  The point was to eliminate Afghanistan as a staging ground for Islamist terrorism.  We toppled the Taliban by early 2202, but we never eliminated them.  Afghanistan will now go right back to being what it was on 11 September 2001.  And if we have to go back in and do it all over again, we will find next to zero Afghanis who will be willing to work with us.

Why did we sacrifice blood and treasure if we were not going to stay the course?
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7857 on: August 21, 2021, 06:01:40 PM »
The plan was for the Afghan "army" we built and financed to hold off the Taliban for a few weeks. That was obviously a misstep. Would have been better off forgiving student loans.
Student loans? Huh.  

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7858 on: August 21, 2021, 06:02:22 PM »
We could have stayed indefinitely at the low level of forces and engagements that we have had since 2014.  In the last 7 years, we have lost 66 personnel and spent about $10 billion--a rounding error in the federal budget--a year.

There has been no groundswell of public opinion demanding that we get out.  Both presidential candidates promised--for various reasons--that they would get us out, and the Trump administration made the deal with the Taliban in early 2020 setting an end date.  At that point, the Afghan army, such as it is, began surrendering and melting away.  They were prepared to fight while we were there--over 50,000 of them died fighting alongside us--but not to fight once they knew that we were abandoning them.

If we weren't going to stay, then why did we go in?  The point was to eliminate Afghanistan as a staging ground for Islamist terrorism.  We toppled the Taliban by early 2202, but we never eliminated them.  Afghanistan will now go right back to being what it was on 11 September 2001.  And if we have to go back in and do it all over again, we will find next to zero Afghanis who will be willing to work with us.

Why did we sacrifice blood and treasure if we were not going to stay the course?
This.  Extremely well articulated. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7859 on: August 21, 2021, 06:05:21 PM »
Student loans? Huh. 
The cost of the war was in the 1 to 2 trillion dollar range. Which is also the range to forgive every student loan. 

Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7860 on: August 21, 2021, 06:07:55 PM »
The cost of the war was in the 1 to 2 trillion dollar range. Which is also the range to forgive every student loan.
Who pays the student loan bill?  Banks? Taxpayers?  
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7861 on: August 21, 2021, 06:08:53 PM »
We could have stayed indefinitely at the low level of forces and engagements that we have had since 2014.  In the last 7 years, we have lost 66 personnel and spent about $10 billion--a rounding error in the federal budget--a year.

There has been no groundswell of public opinion demanding that we get out.  Both presidential candidates promised--for various reasons--that they would get us out, and the Trump administration made the deal with the Taliban in early 2020 setting an end date.  At that point, the Afghan army, such as it is, began surrendering and melting away.  They were prepared to fight while we were there--over 50,000 of them died fighting alongside us--but not to fight once they knew that we were abandoning them.

If we weren't going to stay, then why did we go in?  The point was to eliminate Afghanistan as a staging ground for Islamist terrorism.  We toppled the Taliban by early 2202, but we never eliminated them.  Afghanistan will now go right back to being what it was on 11 September 2001.  And if we have to go back in and do it all over again, we will find next to zero Afghanis who will be willing to work with us.

Why did we sacrifice blood and treasure if we were not going to stay the course?
I think that is the real trick, whether to stay or go. While we backed away from direct fighting in favor of bombings, there wasn't much evidence that this was helping Afghanistan in any real way. 20 years of civil war led to more or less a standstill. 30 years? 40 years? 50 years? Indefinitely is a long time when it comes to war.

MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7862 on: August 21, 2021, 06:09:38 PM »
Who pays the student loan bill?  Banks? Taxpayers? 
Sure. The same people paying the bill for Afghanistan. 

Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7863 on: August 21, 2021, 06:10:57 PM »
Sure. The same people paying the bill for Afghanistan.
That’s what makes it a horrible idea.  
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7864 on: August 21, 2021, 06:13:14 PM »
I think that is the real trick, whether to stay or go. While we backed away from direct fighting in favor of bombings, there wasn't much evidence that this was helping Afghanistan in any real way. 20 years of civil war led to more or less a standstill. 30 years? 40 years? 50 years? Indefinitely is a long time when it comes to war.
Well now that they are terrorized and trying to get out, to avoid beheadings, rapes, beatings, live burnings etc, The situation before actually was helping them. But the bigger thing is it’s helping the rest of the world because now you have the university of tear funded and open for business again.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7865 on: August 21, 2021, 06:13:17 PM »
That’s what makes it a horrible idea. 
Huh? Of the two policies, it's pretty clear paying off student loans would have been a better bang for our buck. I don't know that there can be much debate.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7866 on: August 21, 2021, 06:14:14 PM »
Huh? Of the two policies, it's pretty clear paying off student loans would have been a better bang for our buck. I don't know that there can be much debate.
Exiting the way we did makes you right. Better execution would make you dead wrong though and that’s what was supposed to happen
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #7867 on: August 21, 2021, 06:20:49 PM »
Well now that they are terrorized and trying to get out, to avoid beheadings, rapes, beatings, live burnings etc, The situation before actually was helping them. But the bigger thing is it’s helping the rest of the world because now you have the university of tear funded and open for business again.
I haven't seen any real evidence that anyone, anywhere thought the Taliban weren't going to take back the country. There is a reason why Trump negotiated directly with them. The military "experts" bounded all sorts of numbers around, usually in the range of a half a year. The actual number was less than a couple weeks. The fundamental miscalculation was that the Afghans wanted to fight in a civil war.

 

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